TA Body Tub Timber Construction Pictures

[robj]

Tim,

I think it's a good suggestion to use the outer fenders to determine the radius of the tub timbers. They are the least able to be modified. In TC Forever Mike mentions using the inners as part of the tub construction procedure but later mentions using the outer fenders to check the fit at the rear at the backboard. I think it's a good idea to make sure everything on the tub fits to the outer fenders.
thanks,
robj

P.S. RobR, sorry for sort of hijacking your thread...

[Rob Reilly]

Not a bit, after all we are working through the same problems. And thanks Duncan for the confirmation about the holes in the rubber bonnet corners. Both Doug and Moss have the same, so I conclude I must have got mine from somewhere else, possibly Worcester Classic Spares, but I'll have to find my old receipt.
Edit: found it, it was Worcester, I guess I assumed that all old British car bonnets would be the same.
I'll get some from Doug on my next order.

Now that I have the rubber rear bonnet strip, I see two more questions.
The top corner of the front timbers are offset, don't line up quite right. Should I just sand down the high spots with the belt sander?

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Next, how is the rubber strip attached to the timber? Nails, screws, glue?

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[robj]

Next, how is the rubber strip attached to the timber? Nails, screws, glue?

I have no clue if this is "correct" as I've come to the conclusion a number of fingers have been in this pie.
But the rubber on mine was attached by what appear to be #14 upholstery tacks. As I recall they were about 2" apart.
robj

[Mick bibby]

Hi Bob see piccys, I’ve set mine so it follows the curve at the corner of the scuttle, also the top centre dashboard support needs to form a nice line to the front top scuttle timbers ,
Regarding the rubber seal both my cars were tacked on , spacing of them looks like it wasn’t critical just tacked we’re it was needed
Note top support timber needs fitting yet

[Rob Reilly]

I realized that I can't put the front timbers on until the body panels are on.
So now I have switched to restoring body panels.
The first is the top dash panel or cowl.

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There are a number of extraneous holes from mirrors to be filled.

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Near as I can tell from old TA pictures in my MG books, TAs did not have a dash mirror. Or maybe it was optional or aftermarket.
There was a screw in the middle at "A" going through the timber connection piece under it.
Can anybody confirm or contradict that?

Holes B, C, & D are to be filled.

I believe hole E is for a tonneau cover snap? Is that true?

What about holes F & G ? If they are correct, what is the purpose?

[Mick bibby]

Hi Bob on my 1937 TA .Hole ‘A”it had a small screw fixed through the scuttle to the front centre support ,I had other holes that had the tonneau cover fixings in.i don’t know if hole ‘’A’’was factory fitted!

[Rob Reilly]

Thanks Mick. I see in the Instruction Manual there is a picture and I can see the screw head there, and no dashboard mirror. They must have felt in those idyllic days before fast crowded highways that only a driver's side mirror was needed.

One of the restoration books also mentions a screw there. It is presumably to pull the cowl panel down to the timber. The rust pattern on the underside of my cowl panel shows that it was close up, there was no clearance there, or maybe a strip of felt.

I found a picture of my car before I took in apart which shows tonneau cover Lift-the-Dot snap pins at holes F & G, so I will leave those as is.
I will fill holes B, C, D & E.

[Steve Simmons]

I have a couple very old cowls and the both have that screw hole.

[Rob Reilly]

Thanks Steve. Do they have just the one hole, or do they have mirror holes as well?

[Steve Simmons]

Here are three cowls I've owned recently. The red and grey ones are gone now but I found some decent photos. The rusty one is in the shop right now. All three had been off the road for decades. Surprisingly, none of them have more than the one hole except for the redone which has holes for tonneau studs. Obviously the red one had a mirror mounted in that hole - you can see the rubber stain.

The red one was with TC9849. The grey one was a spare body for the same car.

[Rob Reilly]

Oh, no, here comes Rob with another question.
I finished my cowl

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and moved on to the kick panel side and rocker panels. I decided they were too far gone to try to save, all four had old accident damage along with severe rust away. Doug had a combined side and rocker at a good price, so I got a pair of them from Frame Up. However, they are just flat panels, not pre-formed for the front and doors.

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Any advice before I start fitting them? My first guess is first do some more belt sanding under the doors so there is a good gap, then clamp the panels in place, then form the front bend, then the door bends? Or would you do the door bends before the front bend?

[robj]

Making good progress!
I've stalled a little helping a less mechanical inclined friend recommission a 1961 CJ-5. It's a fun project but taking a bit more time than I had planned on.

As far as which to bend first, I would lean toward the door opening. But that may depend on how much excess material there is. Thinking the front and rear might be easier to trim?
I think it's probably good practice to clamp a hardwood board to the outside sandwiching the metal in-between. The closer in shape to the timber the better. There's a YouTube from the company in the UK, [Hutsons] that makes frames and tubs and although they use a metal form for most stuff it's the same idea, to clamp the metal very firmly in place.

I just asked Doug about the rear quarters and they are 20 g. as opposed to the originals which I think are 17g. so they "should" be a little easier to form.

I bought an Ox air planishing hammer which although tremendously loud does a really nice job on folds. Pricey though.

Just wondering, where are you located?
And keep up the good work!

robj

[Rob Reilly]

Studying it some more today, I see that the door has to come off, but as I thought, I need to be sure I've taken off enough on the timber door sill before I add the thickness of the steel panel.

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The car is currently on its wheels, but I think I'll put it up higher so I can sit on a chair to work on it.
Then I'll clamp it in place or possibly a couple of locating screws, and start bending the shape all around, a little at a time. If I have to, I can trim off excess with a cutting wheel in a die grinder.

BTW I am in rural Indiana, surrounded by corn and soy bean fields. As the farmer's say, be nice to us, we grow your food, or if you eat beef or turkey or chicken or eggs or pork, we grow the food that feeds your food.

[robj]

I eat all of those things!

I saw where you were a mechanical engineer/designer. Same as my dad and my oldest son. I would probably be one as well except that "math gene" appeared to have skipped me. It all worked out though, I satisfied those yearnings after work in the shop. Retired now so full time in the shop where there's peace and harmony...

In TC Forever, Mike suggests 1/4' inch clearance between the wood frame of the door and the wood of the door opening. So I guess the plan is a little less than 1/8" for the door skin and a little less than 1/8" for the body metal. Early TC's had just the body metal formed over leaving some bare wood around the inside of the door opening. I suspect yours is the same.
My later TC has a second separate strip of metal tack welded to the body metal and formed over the inside of the door frame.
I dug through and it looks like it is suggested to start with the door opening.
robj

[Steve Simmons]

I have nothing useful to add here, except that among other things, our area grows a lot of your berries, citrus and avocados.

[Rob Reilly]

I have that TC book and a number of others on wood framed body restoration. Time to get them out and read them again.

[robj]

Rob,
I have both books [TC's Forever and TC Forever More]and to be honest I don't find them easy to digest. Some of the issue I think is with someone like Mike, who is really knowledgeable about a subject, there's a tendency to make some assumptions others are as well and he sometimes forgets that some of us are first timers. I also think the lack of correct or consistent nomenclature creates some issues.

Some of the finer details are missing here and there. And he doesn't always, [at least to me] follow a logical order. As [at least to me] the most consternation one encounters as a new builder is tub construction, I think he could have possibly spent some additional time there. In the second book he states that he doesn't think there's much he could add in that regard so maybe it is me.
I think a really good book would be someone as knowledgeable as he is, do a build in the company of someone, [such as myself] who is a bit clueless. Then all my dumb questions would be answered.

On the other hand, it's pretty much the only thing out there, and many others have muddled through using his book as a guide so I guess we should be very thankful it exists. I wrote technical reports for insurance companies for 45 + years and I always wrote to who might be the most clueless person ever. I fielded very few questions on what I wrote.

I tell my garage buddies, it's like 3 dimensional chess.

robj

P.S. Hopefully this Jeep will be out of here in about 2 weeks so I can catch up... But it feels good to help out a buddy.