TD... want to modify it for Calif Rally events - help?

[Tom P]

Hello Team,

In addition to my MG-M Midget, TC and MGA, I just acquired TD20136. The car is a California car from new, absolutley zero rust and good wood. But, 2 coats of 1960's-1970's resale-red (thank you Mr Earl Scheib) over the original Silver Streak Grey and black interior spray over the original red interior, plus several decades in a dry chicken-coop have rendered the little car needing pretty much everything but rust repair.

I think someday the car would be a good candidate for a full restoration - but I am not that guy. I would like to enjoy the car in it's crusty state on events like the California Motherlode400 rally, the Snowball Rally through the Sierras, the Anti-Football rally on New Years Day in the counties north of San Fran, etc.

For those events I will have the car mechanically reliable, but I also want it to look the part (while being a little "barn-fresh" crusty)... The last owner for 40+ years bumped the bumpers and overriders into EVERY obstacle encoutered over the decades - they are toast. I am going to remove them but I would like to replace them with some simple nerf bars, or bumperless overriders... Team - any ideas out there of what I could use? I am sure this has been done before, but my internet search revealed nothing.

Then, the present tires on original steel wheels and hubcaps are dangerously old. I would like to install new tires, but I would like to beef them up - does anyone know the widest and best tire that can safely be placed on the original wheels with a look and stance appropriate for the rally events? I know this is not proper, but it is easily reversed later on when the car is ready for a proper restoration.

My paint is such a disaster, but I just hit it with 3 degrees of compound and a little wax - it is presentable as a "90 footer!" If I run the desired events, I would like to play up the antique vibe by putting some big white roundels on the doors (covering the chips and dings... and the rally events usually assign numbers), and also place some period-correct stickers on the car. Again, there is no fear of damaging this nasty paint. It is very liberating to finally have a car I don't worry about scrathing or damaging!

Any advice from the team here? Any other ideas I should consider?

Tom

[Tom P]

Trying to add some photos, but hostly I am at wits end trying reduce them enough for the site's requirements.
Tom

[stephen stierman]

Tom,
Don't take this the wrong way, it's your car you can do with it what you like. But a CA. car that is not rusty and has good wood, but has a few dings, a lousy paint job, and an old tired interior really sounds like a pretty nice car. Especially considering all the tarted up TD's we see around here that have had 40 owners each imparting their own "improvements".

You want a rally car? Go out to vintage rally sites and see what a period rally equipped TD looked like back in the day. You will find other than a few extra lamps, maybe a Brooklands screen or two and the wheel covers removed they would look a lot like your car as it is. Get a decent set of 165 x 15 radials, a lot better than the old bias plies the car came with no matter what they are. Frankly 54 hp. does not put down big power in or out of the turns. You can't find nerf bars because there are none, just straighten out your bumpers a bit they look right, and be on your way. I would however find a proper set of grill slats rather than the 'custom look' on the car now.
Best,
Steve

[Steve Simmons]

The stock TD wheels are only 4" wide, so 165R15 is probably your best bet. There are a few offerings from Vredstein in their Sprint Classic model, and I believe Blockley also has a good tire in your size. You might squeeze a 175 on there but beware of going too wide or you will suffer sidewall flex which will introduce instability entering and exiting corners, and reduce steering response. Like your other MGs, TDs actually handle quite nicely despite their narrow tires. It should feel more similar to your MGA than to the TC.

I don't know about "typical" rally modifications since most of this stuff was custom back in the day. If the paint is a bit ratty, you may consider hand painting the roundels and numbers with a brush to give them a vintage amateur racer look. The grill was another common place to paint a number.

In my opinion, TDs look better with bumpers than without. You could add stone guards for the headlamps, remove the hubcaps, add a couple Lucas Flamethrower lamps to the lower grill area and install Brookaldns aeroscreens.

[Tom P]

Good ideas Steve / Stephen - keep them coming. A couple responses:
1. Stephen, your comment "sounds like a pretty nice car." Thank you! It is. But crusty enough that I want to have a little fun with it. With MGs, Jags, and some others, I have 7 other vintage cars that I keep dead stock original. I don't want to cut or weld on this TD, but I do "play" with the looks a little.
2. Yes Stephen, you are dead correct on the slat grill - when I bought this TD I was giggling to myself as to how nasty the existing grille is and pleased in knowning that I have a brand new spare set of slats in the barn! That will go on as soon as I figure what color to paint the slats. I am contemplating doing a faded black/white check flag pattern, though Steve's idea of a number is a good one as well. I also have the option of painting the slats Tan and putting them on my TC, while moving the polished (I think it is polished stainless[?]) slats from the TC to the TD.
3. Brooklands screens are a must. I will order them from Moss this weekend when I order my Pertonix ignition kit (I have to diagnose my distributor cam shape first, to my eye, I have a TF High Lift Dist Cam in what should be an Asymmetric TD distributor.
4. Painted roundels - I like that idea Steve. I was thinking vinyl, but... My paint is a full-on disaster. The hand-paint may fit right in with my Earl Scheib special red!
5. Lucas Flamethrowers... hummm... I'm hitting ebay tonight to seek those. Great idea.
6. Steve, your warning on the 175s is noted. I wonder where the line is between diminished response and safey... I wonder, has anyone produced a TD wheel in a 5" or 5.5" width? All that fender space deserves a little meat under it.
7. The bumpers really need to go. Looking at my photo I cannot believe the bumper looks so good. There is not 1" of either bumper that is straight and the overriders wobble about on the bumpers from being so bent. Now, here is something just crazy.... we moved into our present house 2.5 years ago aware that our new neighbor was a car guy. So, now my 4 MGs live immediately next to my neighbor's TC and TA Tickford - what are the odds of that?!? Last night I dropped him an email - yup, in his barn he has a set of nerf bars removed from a TC somewhere back in the day. I will evaluate those this weekend. Seriously... I set out to find T-series nerf bars and they are in the garage next door. A miracle.

[stephen stierman]

Go out to British Pathe, http://www.britishpathe.com/ and search on Monte Carlo Rally and look for videos of the early 50's to see what cars competing in those days actually looked like. Generally unmodified with additional front lamps and very few with rondels, just numbers stick on the sides. They all had bumpers too as they did run into things and perhaps the thought of a bumper in place was a good idea. 165's would be fine, I see no advantage into going to a taller slightly wider tire on a rim that is too narrow for it. My Morgan 4/4 with twice the power of a TD was just fine on 165's. Also consider the road conditions were atrocious in many areas, dirt, snow, gravel and tire width really was not hugely important.
Come to Ohio if you want to see "crusty", you have almost a show car.......

[Richard Michell]

Example of some of what Steve said. Maybe also consider twin spares on the back - not common but known.

Perhaps someone can translate the caption.

[Tom P]

"Special sections require some special spark plugs, and therefore the difficulty of changing surely be rewarded" (loose translation!)

I encountered that TD on my internet searches as well - it stands out since it must be some sort of special factory variant - look at those completely unusual front fenders/wings... very high fitting under the headlights and around the grille, with fronts that extend below the bumper line... and apparently with no front apron. And, though difficult to see, the side of the bonnet has some unusual louvres. The "running board" area is also very narrow with no rubber strips. This is a very unusual car.