Re: Alloy XPAG blocks...1500 CC

Andy Bradley · Post by **Andy Bradley** » Sat Mar 04, 2000 9:06 am

Perhaps the way to put this argument to rest would be ta have one "perfect" original TC, that everyone agrees is such, and encase it in a Lucite block for posterity. That would satisfy the Purists. Then we can take a "Perfect" Purist and encase him/her in another Lucite block next to the car. That would satisfy the rest of us......
--
Cheers....Andy B.
Bradley Restoration

mrbadger · Post by **mrbadger** » Sat Mar 04, 2000 9:21 am

Better stick with your Beemer sport, how much fun can you have in a TC on a freeway anyway. Stick to the back country roads (if you still have any out there) and you'll get a more realistic view of what TCs are all about.

In terms of motoring history, a humble MG TC may be of greater overall significance than even an 8c Alfa. Don't put it down.

AJChalmers@aol.com wrote:
If it was an 8c2300 Alfa I could understand the pur sang thing, but these cars of ours, to keep driving in California anyway, had better be up to it, and that means freeway speeds and safety.

mrbadger · Post by **mrbadger** » Sat Mar 04, 2000 9:28 am

You've totally missed the point Andy! These cars are to be used and maintained and enjoyed. They are not to be be placed in lucite blocks and they are not to be kept going by bastardizing them at the expense of originality and design integrity. I will ignore your second and infinitely more rude comment.

Andy Bradley wrote:
Perhaps the way to put this argument to rest would be ta have one "perfect" original TC, that everyone agrees is such, and encase it in a Lucite block for posterity. That would satisfy the Purists. Then we can take a "Perfect" Purist and encase him/her in another Lucite block next to the car. That would satisfy the rest of us......

Cheers....Andy B.
Bradley Restoration

Mark McCombs · Post by **Mark McCombs** » Sat Mar 04, 2000 9:40 am

Dont have a soul? I wish you were here when my "never, ever" failed to start TD wouldnt even turn over when a perspective buyer sat in it....I think it didnt want to go! Anyway, I would say they all have a personality, if not a soul. Any changes made to the car therefore changes the personality of it, for better or worse.

Mark McCombs
TC EXU (and for faster trips, 924S)

Skip Kelsey · Post by **Skip Kelsey** » Sat Mar 04, 2000 9:47 am

Andy:

Your priceless!!!!I wish that I had said it.

Cheers:
Skip....................

At 05:08 PM 3/4/00 -0800, Andy Bradley wrote:
Perhaps the way to put this argument to rest would be ta have one "perfect" original TC, that everyone agrees is such, and encase it in a Lucite block for posterity. That would satisfy the Purists. Then we can take a "Perfect" Purist and encase him/her in another Lucite block next to the car. That would satisfy the rest of us......

Cheers....Andy B.
Bradley Restoration

mrbadger · Post by **mrbadger** » Sat Mar 04, 2000 8:02 pm

Yes, Terry the first MG was a hot rodded Morris but the TC was a quality production car and you ain't no Cecil Kimber. Can't get the bearing nut off a TC first motion shaft? Why bother? Why not toss that old lump of a gearbox and adapt a 5 speed from some Jap job?

TATERRY@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 3/4/00 7:51:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, mrbadger@home.com writes:

My last thought on the dreaded thread. We beat this kind of thing to death a while back and it resulted in several folks getting off the list. It also resulted in some our most enthusiastic Tabc'ers in to going into permanent lurk mode and now we don't have the benefit of their experience here.

Thank God that Cecil Kimber didn't feel like Derek and others do. If he did,
> there would have only been Morris's and NO MG's. MG's were hot rodded Morris's and the never hesitated to modify the cars to make them better....

Your particular TC is just a snapshot in time, use it as you wish, but don't castigate other for having fun and safe driving as they see it. Now lets drop this thread before someone paints themselves into a corner.

We have serious problem out here trying to get the bearing nut off the first motion shaft of a TC gearbox....could we have some (positive) suggestions on how to do this. From which end is the shaft viewed when considering the LHT nut?

Cheers.......Safety Fast........Terry

mrbadger · Post by **mrbadger** » Sat Mar 04, 2000 10:12 pm

I have received this message from one of our more neanderthal members. In response to queries as to exactly what "kind" he thought I was, I have, so far, received no reply.
Derek Durst

MG1948@aol.com wrote:
we could do without your kind!

Peter Pleitner · Post by **Peter Pleitner** » Sun Mar 05, 2000 12:08 am

Hi Whitworth Heads,

Quite a weekend your fingers are having on the keyboard. Time would be better spent ignoring holier than thou Derek. But do find some original 1949 hot air from Abingdon for his tires. Since no one has yet, I should remind him that it took Costello to show Abingdon how to defend the MGB against BL's attempt to kill it and the less fortunate MGC in favor of the big Healey.

Can't resist re-reporting to Derek that I am a good custodian of my TC's Bishop Cam steering box. It is being well preserved (no more wear) in proper storage for the next "custodian". I must however commend Derek on the claimed mileage he puts on his TC. His time is far better spent exposing it on public roads and recruiting the next generations of enthusiast custodians. My fear is that there will be far too many TCs than enthusiasts in the next twenty years. Even Leon Mandrel's column in this week's Auto Week blasted the steering characteristics of a TC. He blamed it on skinny tires, not knowing what we do, that the culprit was castor shims and rapid wear of the steering box.

Now as to policy on this type of thread. I control such posturing and berating on my Alfa 750-101 list quite harshly. My list is for the exchange of technical information, not pontification on who's purity of thought and who's action is more worthy of ownership.

I find it most unfortunate that Derek has chosen to attach Terry for making a very interesting and unfortunately timid initial inquiry about a very interesting subject. It would have been ok to read Derek's philosophy once, but only once. Derek's choice of using Terry's inquiry to get on a soap-box I find most disagreeable.

Don't have time for more. Probably a good thing. We're off to brunch with an MG family.

Cheers, Peter

DickShaler@aol.com · Post by **DickShaler@aol.com** » Sun Mar 05, 2000 12:09 am

Allan in a beemer and not having a firm grip on the idea of what TCs are "all about"? Now that's funny or would that be impossibly ridiculous.

Greetings All
Dick

CFritz7001@aol.com · Post by **CFritz7001@aol.com** » Sun Mar 05, 2000 12:16 am

OK, gentlemen,

I've had a few chuckles out of this thread, and a few bursts of indignation as well, but I think it's about time to bury the hatchet (or should I say half-shaft?), and get on with the real business of the TABC list. In case some of you have forgotten, THE LIST'S PURPOSE IS THAT OF SHARING INFORMATION, AND MUTUAL SUPPORT.

In case you haven't noticed, there have been quite a few new members joining the list in recent weeks. What will they think, if all that appears in their mail from the list is a stream of increasingly unpleasantly-expressed opinions? I'm sure that our new members joined the list for information and support--let's give them what they came to find!!!

Regards,
Carl Fritz

Syd Saperstein · Post by **Syd Saperstein** » Sun Mar 05, 2000 2:46 am

Lurking, no more, I come out of the woodwork to try to spread Duckhams on troubled waters. The recent thread reminds me of going to church,(synagogue, Mosque, Ashram, etc., etc.) The preacher is called to remind us of our higher purpose and the congregation, in its lowly, worldly, real self is shamed into right thinking for at least another week. Well, this forum is not church (etc., etc.) and our cars are not as pure as the driven snow. they have been "modified here and there over the years by practical people to enable, safer, more comfortable operation. On the other hand other cars are or have been put back into more or less original condition. In the case of the former, I like to think of my car as a rolling piece of history, and what former owners have done with it, (so long as the changes have been relatively minor like using neoprene where rubber once was, or replacing wood screws with bolts, or rubber fuel lines with silicone lined stainless steel mesh fuel lines, or living with my Clearhooter horn while my restored Altette hangs on the garage wall (I just like the name Clearhooter, better - it makes me laugh)

Now in the case of the latter, We have several museums around here with Mg's in them and even an original PA Airline coupe, too, and we all enjoy seeing them. Their owners, or more correctly curators, take great pains to make sure they have an un-bastardized car. (Bastardize - A very curious and inflammatory term indeed to be used to describe the condition of a car - why not mongrelized, or degenerative, or blasphmized,,,that would really put those bastards in their place!) My TC has had a life of loving use and disuse by a few folks (I only wish I knew who) who handed the car down to me in relatively complete and original condition. What they did with the car is all part of that car's history, and I do not wish to turn the clock back to 1949 to regain its lost "soul". When MG's die do they go to heaven or hell? I guess it depends on whether they have any foreign parts on them) Gadzooks! I better run out and remove those Bosch sparking plugs...now where in heaven or hell did i put those pink Lodges!

So, dear curators, drivers, racers, hillclimbers, hot-rodders, and even the the exalted, MG protectors of the Faith, now that we have taken the topic from the serious to the ridiculous, can we all agree to live and let live. Why not let's all agree that at the Grand Concours in the sky the complete and original car will win and the rest of will politely applaud the winner. The winner's owner may be allowed to conduct clinics and break-out sessions on how to maintain a 100 point car and the rest will dutifully listen and take notes. And the rest who have raced with 16" wheels and Pertronics ignition, and other hi-tech or foreign mods will be allowed to smile and remember the fun they had with their cars. But for now, here on Earth, let's just have a little fun and put our differences behind us!!!

Viv James TraX Interconnect (Pty.) Ltd · Post by **Viv James TraX Interconnect (Pty.) Ltd** » Sun Mar 05, 2000 3:45 pm

Looks like I've been ousted from my honorary position of Chief Stirrer on the list by Derek Durst. Derek, you have done so well that I am getting pangs of conscience from the M10 stainless steel bolts that I used on my front apron! As for the tapered 1/2 shafts that have removed all vestiges of original ex factory play from my rear wheels as well as putting my car back on the road where it belongs in time for yesterday's 200 mile regularity rally, I guess that not even penances will put things right. Once the new spindles have been turned, heat treated and shrunk in, and the front wheels are safely, tightly and permanently in position I will probably be expunged from the list despite having sheared 2 original front spindles in my lifetime. Removing play from the front wheels is probably another deadly sin. Its much better to have the original spec bearings flopping around in the original hubs which can't be sleeved back to original size. This gives that nice original loose feeling to the car when one is on the spectacular mountain passes that we are so lucky to have here.

The good news is that I have original steering and a bog standard XPAG motor with cast iron block and oil drips.

For those of you that are wondering if Viv wrote this, let me explain that I have decided to fix all these danger spots for once and for all on both of my TCs so that I can live long enough to enjoy driving them and give others the pleasure of seeing them on the road.

Keep it up Derek. We all need to be reminded of our custodianship duties once in a while.

Austin R. Baer · Post by **Austin R. Baer** » Sun Mar 05, 2000 4:30 pm

Wish this "originality" thread would stop. I remember that several members dropped out the last time it blossomed, several of whom I consider some of the most informed and experienced (read: "most to offer"). A couple rejoined, but some didn't. While it can be amusing at first, it gets old pretty fast, especially when people set out to "win".

I'm in the middle on the argument. I wish I had had my Datsun box on Mt. Ascutney in 1951 or at Thompson, Connecticut in those years. I raced on 16" wheels, and I'm sure glad they were available, as were WWII surplus aircraft seatbelts. My current TC's are still pretty much virginal, but Alfin drums are tempting, and Bob Grunau's front stub axles have probably saved a couple of lives as well. Preservation to me means keeping both me and the car out of the boneyard.

Austin

PMS GB Ltd · Post by **PMS GB Ltd** » Sun Mar 05, 2000 5:09 pm

Message text written by Skip Kelsey
But to flatly state that if I improve the steering, by installing a Datsun steering box in a TC, then it is no longer an MG is laughable.

Hi Skip,

Well its a move that always brings tears to my eyes!

I was going to keep out of this one (for a change!) -- but how much of the original design do you have to throw away before it's no longer an MG.......And how does one go on fit a comfortrable Porche body with its nice seats on the T Chassis????????

Clive

Geoffrey WHEATLEY · Post by **Geoffrey WHEATLEY** » Sun Mar 05, 2000 8:17 pm

Well said Clive,
Why bother to own a MG if you turn it into a modern mass produced car of strange origins. A bit of that and a bit of this from God only knows what! WHY NOT GO OUT AND BUY MODERN IMPORT OR A MGB!

Regards Geoff

tony bruno · Post by **tony bruno** » Sun Mar 05, 2000 8:24 pm

Wow! I get back from a weekend in Philadelphia for my parents 54th anniversary and you guys are at it again! 5 times as many emails as usual!

But it did make me think. My mother was built in 1924 just west of Oxford. My Dad imported her in 1946 and she's been in the family ever since. We've always considered her totally original, but now I'm not so sure. We added a modern pair of glasses in 1978, but they come off when we take her to shows. Our big faux pas was having a heart valve replaced 5 years ago. There were no NOS parts available so we had a (gasp) US made part installed. She runs great now - but I'm wondering if it was the right thing. Should have just stuck with the original, right?

Tony

Geoffrey WHEATLEY · Post by **Geoffrey WHEATLEY** » Mon Mar 06, 2000 2:13 am

Tony,
I was built just east of Oxford (Abingdon) in 1932 and have to admit that I do have a few extra none Oxford bits added over the years...But the important parts are still original and British. As far as I can tell, but will ask my wife tonight, they work very well even for an old fart like me!

Regards Geoff

Jbtc48@aol.com · Post by **Jbtc48@aol.com** » Mon Mar 06, 2000 7:39 am

It is really a shame that we are loosing members because of a few intolerant members that believe that their way is the ONLY way to treat a MG. We all bought these cars with the intent to enjoy.

Geoff and a couple others have jammed this communication link with a vendetta against anyone who doesn't believe that there way is the only way.! If I sell any of my unused and restored parts you can be sure it won't be to any of those extremests. If this cannot be a membership of friends all enjoying a great hobby then I might join the group that is leaving. I feel self sufficient to go it alone if necessary.

I have two MG's that I have have been restored to the highest order possible, at considerable expense. One is as original as possible (a show car) the other is a racer with aSherrock blower, bored , B&G head, larger exhaust, 1500cc,racing clutch, new spindles, chromemolly half shafts, and numerious modern seals, etc. etc. All of the original and restored parts are still in house, and will not be sold without the car so that a PUTIST like Geoff can't pick the inventory to pieces at a cheap price. I will trash my parts before he gets them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SINCERELY
Joe Bernert
2 MG's

Geoffrey WHEATLEY · Post by **Geoffrey WHEATLEY** » Mon Mar 06, 2000 7:58 am

Joe,I feel your comments are both unfair and unrelated to anyone else who may have a different view from you. I do not push my views down your throat so don't push yours down mine. My comments is simple.

I DO NOT PUT ANY THING ON MY CARS THAT WAS NOT INTENDED. YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU LIKE BUT DON"T MAKE IT A CRUSADE THAT HAS TO BE PROMOTED TO EVERYONE ON THIS LIST..AND DON'T PICK ON PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO STILL FEEL THAT A T TYPE MG SHOULD BE A T TYPE MG NOT A MIXTURE OF BITS FROM OTHER CARS.

Regards Geoff

Gene Gillam · Post by **Gene Gillam** » Mon Mar 06, 2000 9:14 am

In every group you're going to have differences of opinion. Be glad that in this one there's only two - those that feel one way about originality and those that feel another. Either group is considered *extreme* by the other - but both groups love their MG's so what difference does it make?
Live and let live.

Gene

MG T-ABC

MG T-ABC