MG TA Steering

[prharris25]

Having a bit of trouble with my TA steering adjustment......big difference between full left and full right locks.
Crudely measured, the distance between the front offside tyre and the front spring grease nipple on full left lock is four and a quarter inches with the end of the drag link hitting the front o/s spring. On full right lock, the distance between the front nearside tyre and grease nipple is two and three quarter inches with the drop arm then hitting one of the sump bolts. I can see no steering "stops" on either the steering box or the front axle.
Any help most gratefully received.

Paul.
Hampshire, UK.

[Phil Dadd]

Hi Paul,
My TA is currently off the road with the steering gear removed. thus i can't give you any measurements.
The first thing that comes to mind is the position of the drop or steering arm. is this postioned centrally? From memory, with the car jacked up and the wheels is a straight ahead position, the steering or drop arm should be straight ahead -- I may be wrong, but if you remove the nut from the underside of the steering box, the drop arm is splined and can be positioned in a spot the give you equal distances on either side. It will be a simple matter of trial and error until you achieve the correct postion for the wheels.
I have placed several posts in this forum without replies and tend to think that people may not be aware of the similarity of the TA and TC. The steering set up and components on both these cars are the same. A suggestion may be that you pose your question as though you are asking for information for a TC. I am sure that you will get a much faster and more informed reply.
I'm in Sydney, Australia otherwise I would be happy to come and give you some help.
Regards,
Phil TA 2982

[EdCallo]

What I have always done is put the steering wheel on where I think dead straight head is. Then turn the wheel all the way to the left, counting the turns, then back to center and all the way to the right counting turns. If they are not the same I move the steering wheel to correct. After I have the steering so that it is the same amount (or fractions of) turns left and right from center I then center the wheel and see where the arm is pointing. Then setting the front wheels straight ahead connect the arm. Then check everything again and adjust as needed.

Need to have the front end off the ground and a way to determine when wheels are pointing straight ahead. But for a T series car, visual is most likely ok. Remember they didn't have fancy alignment tools that read to 10th of degrees when these cars were made.


Ed

[prharris25]

Thanks folks for your sound advice.....apologies for delay in responding.

Once all apart, found the stub axles had been fitted to the wrong sides, thus steering stop bolts facing front ! although the axle seemed to be on the correct way with the right amount of castor on beam and springs.
Incorrect bicycle type cotters also fitted to king pins. Drop arm incorrectly fitted as well. New correct cotters fitted and stops adjusted etc.

With this all done, she now steers, I guess, much the same way as she would when she left Abingdon in 1938.
No wander and very positive with a good attempt at self centring after a sharp turn. So very happy.

With original 8:1 steering box, still a bit heavy for my liking when compared to my 1934 Morris, but the MG is a sports car after all. I do not dislike it enough to go down the modern steering box road, but do wonder if the later TA/B/C 11:1 box would be a happy compromise ??? Any thoughts most welcome !

Thanks again.

Paul.

[ian theobald]

I discovered exactly the same thing and also realised with stub axles back to front that nut holding hub on would of undone with only the split pin stopping it as direction of thread is opposite for each stub axle so if on back to fronts will undo in direction of rotation of wheel.
Found out also that with new cotter pins that the heads protude further thus preventing a nice tight turning circle.
I have ground mine down but think could do with more but is better than before when had no stoppers and wheels sometimes rubbed inside mud guard,luckily not damaging them.
My beam axle was correct and steering ishappy with steering .
My car has a Datsun box and very smooth and does not wander.

[prharris25]

Thanks Ian.
It seems to me that a more modern box is the only way to go. I cannot believe how heavy and dead a TA is with its correct 8:1 box.......a totally dead feeling on anything but a perfectly straight road. I am comparing it to a 1926 Bullnose Morris Oxford and a 1934 Morris 10/4...both of which have delightfully light and positive steering with good castor action despite being substantially heavier cars. The MG has virtually no castor return on corners and is, frankly, horrible to drive after the Morris's.
I would sell it if I didn't think that there must be something still wrong, I'm sure the 1939 TB I had in 1973 wasn't as bad as this. Axle is on right way round, steering stops perfect, Bishop box in good order, all castor and beam angles correct and tracking spot on. New, quite narrow section 450 x 19 tyres at 30psi. What am I doing wrong ?

[stephen stierman]

A couple of things to look at. Firstly, the cam and peg should be set up so that in the straight ahead position the peg is on top of the cam and I can just about bet it is not. Jack the front end up, get the wheels exactly straight ahead, measure at each wheel from inside edge to something on the chassis and get them exactly the same. Slightly move the steering wheel back and forth and you should feel some drag at the center, measure again to be sure you are straight ahead, if not adjust the length of the drag link to center the cam and peg. The adjustment peg should not be too tight, if it is steering is heavy and will not return when cornering. With the front jacked up you should just feel some drag as the cam and peg line up at center, not much more. Also check toe in, very important in keeping the car in a straight line. I probably have a bit more than the 1/8" recommended but not much, I really was considering a VW box but after adjusting all the above I found things to be much better. There will always be some lost motion at center, but considering age and basic design, it should steer reasonably well.

[prharris25]

Thanks Stephen, will re-check the toe-in again.....I think I have the steering box correct.

Another thing not helping is the original flimsy three spoke steering wheel.....I reckon one spoke is fractured and covered with tape....another job !!

Paul.

[Phil Dadd]

Thinking about Ed's comment, you are not dealing with rocket science. In the 1960's I always used a stick with chalk marks and nails hammered into it to align the front tyres. Properly set up, the Bishop's box is very good, but I came out of an era when it wasn't easy to have these repaired and having 14" free play in the steering wheel circumference caused me to fit a Datsun box. This was well over 20 years ago with resultant wonderful steering. But, the TA chassis and engine does not have the space of that of a TC, so the fitting of the adapter plate is quite different to that on the TC. Here in OZ the Datsun conversion usually comes with a custom made adapter which doesn't fit the TA. From memory too the early and later TA chassis have different mounting holes for the steering box. I have a late model car and had to cut away some of the front engine mount plate to get mine to fit. I don't know anything about the VW conversion that our American friends use, maybe these are smaller and an easier fit for a TA? The main problem is that the TA engine juts out at the bottom, unlike the XPAG which is pretty much straight up and down. Before doing any further testing, I would restabilise your steering wheel. Even a couple of metal plates over the break and held in place with clamps would be better than one held together with adhesive tape. Either that or borrow another steering wheel until you get yours repaired.
Phil

[prharris25]

Thanks for this Phil.

Yes, I too used to use chalk and a string line to set the steering on the 10/4 ! Never a problem.
The 10/4 has a Bishop Cam box, but is of a far better construction and more heavy duty than the one on the TA which I don't think is man enough for the job. I guess MG had to use what they were sent from Cowley....in this case, what looks very much like a Morris 8 size unit !

The steering wheel certainly has to go. It is my understanding that the VW box with specific TA bracket is a straightforward fit. It is such a sweet running car in all other respects that I think it deserves decent steering gear. I shall keep the original parts of course.

[Gene Gillam]

Quick note - the VW conversion simply has a round tube bolted to the frame upon which the VW box clamps. The box itself is not much wider (if any) than the standard BC box. If you email Doug Pelton (doug@fromtheframeup.com) he may be able to send you a photo of one he has in stock.

[prharris25]

Thank Gene.
All a bit of a minefield isn't it ? I fully accept that the MG is a sports car and would have had a higher steering box ratio than a family saloon of the same age but I do find it hard to accept that the driving experience of the MG should be SO much poorer compared to a 1934 Morris Ten Four.....admittedly, a very well sorted one that I have owned for over 50 years ! At least it gives me a bench mark to compare the TA to as I try and improve things....which I will.
Thanks again for all your help folks.

[Gene Gillam]

Paul,

I discovered the vagaries of the BC shortly after I got my chassis on the road...it wasn't any time before I knew I needed something better. I opted for the Datsun conversion on that one and, after adding a second TC to the stable changed its steering to the VW box. Both are excellent and both feel great when driving.

Gene

[prharris25]

Gene,

Many thanks. My mind is made up....VW box it is !
I shall keep the original parts of course, but I look forward to being able to enjoy driving the car...as I do my Morris.

Paul.