TC3995 on Copart in San Berdoo

[Tom Lange, MGT Repair]

Does anyone recognize this badly burned TC being sold at auction? It would be intereting (and sad) to hear the back-story on its present condition.

https://www.copart.com/lot/55684210/194 ... bernardino

Tom Lange
MGT Repair

[Steve Simmons]

I do recognize the car, but I can't remember who owns it. Looks like a dash fire to me. It's very sad, and with the current state of the classic car market I'm not sure If it will get restored.

[Rob Zucca]

I too would like to know the story. I hope you’re wrong Steve and it does get restored. A new clad body tub would be the biggest hit I think. The rest of the mechanicals will probably be OK. A nice project if acquired cheaply enough.

[Steve Simmons]

Agreed. If I had the time, space and money...

Edit: The car belonged to Steve Guttormsson, a TC Motoring Guild member from Minnesota. He passed away in 2017, so I guess the car was sold and made its way to San Bernardino, CA.

(Edit because a fellow club member just helped me remember whose car it was.)

Here's a photo from before the fire...

[Tom Lange, MGT Repair]

Here's what I wrote on another forum:
Is it called Alfy because it has Alfin drums? The engine number would make it TC3995.

In this market they would be lucky to get $10k for it. I would say that the tub is marginal/doubtful at best, especially with the amount of wood that would need fitting and replacement. That car was literally on fire in the passenger compartment, and all those adjacent panels will have warped, from cowl to doors to scuttle to back half. But beyond the tub, dash/instruments, paint, chrome and interior are expensive, and there are so many unknowns that I doubt it is a viable project.

It looks like it WAS a very decent car, but in today's market, again, pre-fire value was somewhere between 25-30k. I would venture to say that while it COULD be fixed, it is more likely a parts car. Sad to say, it's the kind of car that gets begun, handed around to a few people who half-heartedly work on it until they discover how ill-fitting everything new is, and end up parting it out...

I have a Mark II TD that went through a garage fire and got very hot (the car itself never burned), and it's turning out to be much more of a stretched and warped challenge than I ever anticipated.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair

[Steve Simmons]

I agree, probably a $30K car before and $10K at best now. And to pay a professional to fix it would cost $40K. But on the bright side, look at the before photo. A lot of things will still be very nice including the wheels and running gear, engine, etc. It's really the dash and wood that are the problem. The doors should be easy enough to straighten out but the cowl is probably toast. Hopefully the firewall is still straight and could stay attached.

Interesting that the rear compartment is virtually untouched. The floor is solid and the vinyl on the sides is merely sooty. The top was probably up and on fire, since the wood around the rear of the cockpit is charred but nothing underneath it is. The more I look at the car, the more I think it might not be as bad as it seems. Maybe you could do an A/B pillar and sill replacement and put the metal back on. Maybe.

For the archives, here are photos of the car post-fire...

[Duncan M]

"Alfy" likely a nod to his Icelandic ancestry. Afi is a grandfather in that language. As is, would make a good start on an MG Special.

[jddevel]

In my opinion this car realistically will be either for someone who is looking for a "forget the cost" challenge or a parts car that will enable those stalled renovations awaiting a hard to find piece. Heat can do strange things to metal and with a car whose parts when new needed tinkering this I feel will be a real can of worms. Hopefully we`ll get an update from the successful buyer as to what they propose.

[stephen stierman]

As I look at that car and the damage done, I see roughly that the same timbers and sheet metal and some other parts will need replacing just as I replaced in the rotten, rusty and bondo covered TC that I restored many years ago and now enjoy. Unfortunately I am at an age that I find this project one that I would not wish to take on. Knowing what I know I will tell you that this is more than just a parts car to someone with the skill set set to bring it back.

[Tom Lange, MGT Repair]

I absolutely agree that it COULD be repaired and gotten back on the road, but in this day and age, with prices low, costs high, and a plentiful supply of cars (I have turned down 2 complete but rough TC's in the last month for $6k, and $8k), I think there is, at best, a 30% chance that anyone WOULD take it on. Especially with Copart's pricing, and with $24k as their estimated value. Times and interests have changed, unfortunately.

With a new tub, a complete dash with all switches and gauges, wiring, complete interior including seat frames and adjusters, complete interior kit, with carpets and some chrome work, I count at least $16k, plus $7k paint - so Copart would have to sell the car under $10k (which I doubt they would), to make it a $30k car with a salvage title. Cars like this go to people with stars in their eyes until they realize just how much work a real restoration is, and then the cars get poassed on two or three more times until they are parts cars, disassembled and missing parts.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair

[stephen stierman]

I can build and skin my own tub with timbers I buy from the usual suspects, I don't need to buy a complete tub. I do my own paint and body work. Good availability of upholstery, top, curtain, carpet kits, easily installed and eBay is certainly a source for much of the other gauges and bits, sure not inexpensive but, I'm not going to have anywhere near $23K in it.

[timberstone]

The MGTC3995 "Alfy" definitely deserves better than to be broken for parts, so perhaps also some creative input from observers and members of this forum can help its restoration.

The scene of flame spread, that is shown by the burned out cockpit in the photos of TC3995, is so classic of the type of dashboard fires that continually plague the TC. There is absolutely NO evidence of flame in the engine compartment, where one might expect fire due to fuel leakage and ignition. I am not an expert in the "cause and origin of fire", but have been close enough to this same circumstance that I can impart some examples from experience.
The fire starts when too much "Lucas Smoke" finds its way to combustible material, such as the wooden dashboard and surround, so that it turns into flames.

Lessons from the photos can start with the following:
1. Have installed a master battery cut off switch with easy access -- maybe with switches both in the cockpit and under the bonnet.
2. Disconnect the battery before doing any electrical work and be ready to disconnect the battery again after completion.
3. Have a fire extinguisher handy -- and not always just in the cockpit -- all the time -- but particularly when working under the dashboard.
4. Do not trust any frayed, worn or broken wiring.
5. Make sure all wiring completes proper circuit so that no wires "Go to ground" -- and thus can become overheated.
6. Only obtain electrical parts and wiring from trusted sources.
7. Be sure of the proper wiring schematic that is in use for the particular model. There are several variations, and there are even mistakes, contained in the factory wiring diagrams, as well as in aftermarket schemes.
8. Do not take the dashboard wiring for granted just because the harness seems to be much shorter and smaller than the main harness.

The list is not totally exhaustive of the multiple ways that fires in the T series dashboard can start. Perhaps others in this forum also can add some observations and admonitions.

[Steve Simmons]

I will say that the dash electrical connections should all be checked annually. I've found connections loose many times. Flex and vibration are the enemy.

[Mark McCombs]

Battery cut-off master switch is at the top of my list....I was originally thinking it would be good to have it handy when the car was parked but a main way to kill smoke now make even better sense.

[Tom Lange, MGT Repair]

I hope nobody misunderstands me - I completely agree that the car IS saveable, and I very much hope it DOES get saved. But based on the realities of supply, demand, the extent and type of damage, and pricing of MG cars right now, in the long run it seems unlikely to me. I have mentioned elsewhere a Premier-winning grey TF1500 being towed on a trailer involved in an accident, and completely flipped off the road, landing upside down. The entire tub was mashed, but it was bought on Copart, and is nw being restored! BRAVO! That car has a TC transmission, byt he way.

Tom :Lange
MGT Repair

[Beau]

There is a complete "Do it your self" TC body kit on the TCForum right now. Price $1600. Not mine, just passing on info.

Beau

[Ray White]

No one has mentioned it but unless it was uninsured, someone has probably already taken the value from this car through their insurance. The fire has left this TC beyond economic repair so If the insurance has paid out the car's write off value then the owner's expectation of anything like the $24,000 estimate is totally unrealistic.

Ray.

[jddevel]

I am in the proscee of restoring a `48 TC which as a California car that had been in dry storage for many years and with only 36K on the clock. With a limited amount of tub rot in the usually places due to age. With a well equiped cabinet workshop and what I`d like to think a reasonable level of compedence I after close analysis and reading others success and frustrations with fit decided to by a new tub. This will be a money pit to end up with a car that will in no way return its cost in todays marketbut a sense of pride and achievement. I will admit I`m 75 so time is a serious consideration on my part.

[Steve Simmons]

Sold for $4,700 but it doesn't say if that includes any fees, etc. For a few thousand more, someone will have a nice driver at a reasonable price. But I don't envy the wood repair project ahead of them.

[Mark McCombs]

That and hope that the engine sump and gearbox is not full of water...