Rear wings and tank fitting.

[Ray White]

Before I go much further with this TC build, could someone please tell me if I should be fitting the rear wings to the body first ?... or does the tank need to go on first.? Any help would be appreciated.\

Thank you.

Ray.

[bloodysalmon]

hi Ray, the question is loaded with lots of ...'depends'!
depends on whether you have original wings and if they belonged to that TC? If so locating holes in the wings should or could be so helpful to site them correctly and aligned down the body. Generally I would say that is the most important part needing accuracy compared to the tank sat correctly; saying that the tank can really only go up or down, backwards or forwards but not inwards nor outwards (makes sense) 90' to the chassis. Make sure your new body tub is sat squarely to the chassis and equal on both sides, if not the tank fitting can be squewed. Hey this is only my experience, but I've done 4 and on my 5th TC now

[Bill Davis]

Hello Ray,
Tom Wilson may have factory photos of the production line showing which was installed first to the TC.

On the early TA the tank was installed first as in this photo.

Setting square on the chassis, as Chris says, should simplify the installation.
Regards, Bill

SA_TA-Production.png (578.36 KiB) Viewed 4955 times

[Ray White]

Thanks Chris and Bill.

My wings are original but unfortunately they were re fitted with other holes made in them. I have been trying to restore the wings to something like the correct profile (hammer and dolly) as one in particular had been crushed. I do have the measurements so I should be able to work out which holes are original. One wing also has a big hole where it had been ripped from the tank end. I have welded in a repair patch but will need to measure the other wing to establish where the hole needs to go. The inner wings are new with the body tub so I have no datum points which is why I wondered if the tank goes on first.

[Mark McCombs]

Just doing all this today. I mounted the tank first, making sure it was square and centered on the backboard, and using a new rubber set from Abingdon spares.

I was fortunate that my inner wings were useable during the tub rebuild and so have the original wing mounting holes to reference. So far everything is lining up and I started with the rear bolt that holds the rear of the wing to the tank side and rotated the wing up into position, using a T shaped wood prop with a scissors jack to hold the inside of the wing up in position. So far, the only concession was to use a thinner rubber strip under the tank mount feet (1/4 thick instead of the 1/2 thick that came with the strip set) to slightly lower the tank to allow the tank mount to correctly line up....which is probably from the reinforced tank bottom at the feet.

[Ray White]

That's interesting, Mark. Thanks for posting. I have welded a large washer over the damage hole in my rear wing (held in place with a magnet)and filled in the small hole (not shown) but not sure yet where the mounting hole needs to be. The new inner wings have no holes and the old wings have numerous incorrect ones but I have a good idea where they should go.

The problem is that I need to make a decision about my petrol tank. It has been opened up, something inserted, then welded up again so it only holds 10 gallons now!


I must either cut it open again and remove whatever is in there or buy a new tank. I am not that confident with my welding to guarantee a leak proof seal so may need to get our local black smith to do the welding. Ideally it will be gas welded but I only have an old mig welder which is temperamental at best.

[timberstone]

Ray,
I have an ORIGINAL tank for MGTA that I have stored 45 years, if you are interested.
Please send Private Message to me and I will photo and describe it to you.
Octagonally yours, Robert Griffey (timberstone)

[bloodysalmon]

wow that tank has been played with hasn't it ... it bit too much for my liking! You'll have to make the call to whether its ever going to last, even if it doesnt leak now! I'd also question that tank is going to be square enough or flat enough to show NO distortion?
May be a good idea to get another and or new replacement one

[Ray White]

Hi Chris. The car was used in competition in Australia (it was dismantled in 1960). I understand the idea was to reduce the amount of fuel sloshing around. Until I open it up I don't know what is in there...

[Mark McCombs]

Okay well second rear fender now mounted temporarily And the fit seems pretty good, Again using the locator bolt on the gas tank side as a starting point. I must have repaired part of that passenger inner fender as I was lacking those reference holes I had on the driver side. So after careful measurement between the 2, once I got the passenger side in place I used a hot melt glue gun with small blocks of wood on the inner fender to act as in an out locator.

Question: How closely should the inside flange of the rear fenders fit up against and around the inner fender? I have some areas that fit perfectly flush and others there's a gap of maybe 1⁄4"That I can dolly Up once I remove them before final fit, but don't want to risks changing the shape unless it should be a tight assembly between the rwo.

Thanks.... Note to Steve simmons.... Pictures coming soon!

[Ray White]

Mark. We seem to be asking the same questions. I was thinking the inner and outer wings were simply bolted together once the tank fixings were done up. What I would also like to know is what the gap between the rear wing and the tank should be. On my car it was more one side than the other ...and the tank seemed central... so I don't know.

[Mark McCombs]

Hi, Ray

I have 5/8" gap between the rear fenders and the fuel tank mounting points on both sides.

Mark

[Ray White]

Hi, Ray

I have 5/8" gap between the rear fenders and the fuel tank mounting points on both sides.

Mark

Fantastic. That is with an original tank of course. If - as seems likely - I may need to buy a new stainless steel tank, I would be relying on chance for it to be identical. I expect it will be. Octagon Car Club Spares Dept. have not let me down so far.

I looked at replacement steel tanks but what many people are unaware of is that originally, they would have been internally coated with a special rust resistant finish; something that new steel tanks lack. They will need to be coated with an ethanol proof coating which is not cheap. I might as well pay a bit extra for a new stainless one. With second hand there are usually rust issues that I can do without.

[Mark McCombs]

Ray,

I'm not a fan of coating tank insides, as I have had coatings fail on both a TR3 tank as well as a Norton tank (already painted....).

The TR3 tank failed in big sheets like petals of a flower, the Norton tank had two huge fuel filled blisters in the tank bottom. Both were a mess and nearly impossible to fully remove. Anyway, my two cents worth.

[Ray White]

Ray,

I'm not a fan of coating tank insides, as I have had coatings fail on both a TR3 tank as well as a Norton tank (already painted....).

The TR3 tank failed in big sheets like petals of a flower, the Norton tank had two huge fuel filled blisters in the tank bottom. Both were a mess and nearly impossible to fully remove. Anyway, my two cents worth.

Well worth posting the advice, Mark. I have used the TAPOX ethanol proof tank coating system which includes Fertan rust converter on my 1930 Austin Seven (Swallow) petrol tank. It seems to be holding up well after 10 years but I wouldn't trust anything else. I don't think TAPOX is available in the USA....
(unsafe??)

[Mark McCombs]

I had a Morini 175 that came from Italy that had the tank internally coated with something that was red....It seemed very durable, I wish I knew what it was.

[Duncan M]

I wanted to keep the original fuel tank/paint. No leaks or pinholes when I rinsed it out in batches with a couple gallons of lacquer thinner about 7 years ago. The very large amount of surface area inside the tank with those baffles convinced me to spend as much on Caswell sealer as it would have cost for a new tank. A tricky operation to cover everything in there, but it must have worked because whenever I check any of the fuel system screens they are totally clean.

I noticed the Topax instructions seem to indicate it is for new steel tanks, while Caswell instructions say rough and rusty surface makes their epoxy stick better.

That much 2 part epoxy in the tank heated it up to a hot temp initially during curing, but the original paint was not bothered by it. I did it during the heat of summer. Poured in about mid or late morning, and then left out in the hot direct sun all day. I used the clear formulation. Caswell also makes it in a "dragon's blood red" formulation. All the 2-part caswell is supposidly not affected by ethanol in the fuel.

[searunner]

I had a Morini 175 that came from Italy that had the tank internally coated with something that was red....It seemed very durable, I wish I knew what it was.

Hi MARK
the MORINI TANK protection can be "TANKERITE" a Commercial product (Eposidic resin) used normaly in Italy
for stop the leaks
I have used it for my Austin Healey BUT with poor result - and have turned to a NEW tank
For My TC I have used Ortofosforic acid for the preparation (clean completly the rust and make a grey protection to the internal of the tank ) then Eposidic resin to seal all the side of the tank
after 5 years the tank haven't leaks, but a peeve ooze at the bottom - So I decided to buy a New Tank from NTG

[Ray White]

I noticed the Topax instructions seem to indicate it is for new steel tanks, while Caswell instructions say rough and rusty surface makes their epoxy stick better.

Duncan. What reason do you think they (TAPOX) would have for adding their product to a stainless steel tank?

[Duncan M]

Ray, I did not say anything about stainless, but I imagine a stainless tank lined with the epoxy coating would make the tank protected from chemicals that react with stainless. For an old used steel petrol tank from a T Type, the preparation they (Tapox) require would not be possible, except for a new steel tank. The other reason to line a SS tank would be if the SS used to make the tank was of an inferior SS grade.