MG TA1932 in Germany - Blog - all problems and ...

[Franz Tenbrock]

and mine is also welded to the frame, so not possible to take it off with the engine installed ;-(
and my screw can not get out as I described

[Franz Tenbrock]

hi together
got the steering off the car
here some pictures,
the overhouled steering from ebay two years ago and my steering witht a lot of play
the other one has no play and turns easyly, i think much better

should i open it ?
can i make a mistake when i have opened it ?

my steering has a greas niiple on the column
the new one on the steering box


what do you think

[Franz Tenbrock]

could not wait for answers,
opened my steering
and it was good to open it as you see
someone in the past had weld something on the steering arm
should take a new one before installing this steering again ?!
the worm looks good

i wll open the new one too after seeing this inside
or?

what grease should i take

[Franz Tenbrock]

opened the "new" one

different grease inside, a little thicker I think
there were 2 washers and a paper under the cover
there is a number stamped on the worm

the sector shaft looks good here

have not removed all parts, have the grease with a brush heruasgenommen and cleaned with a cloth everything

afraid to do something wrong when I open the other cover

or is it so easy that I can do that ?

[Franz Tenbrock]

taken all parts off from my old steering to see more ;-)

both bearing are perfect

have seen other pictures in the web and have noticed that someone has made some changing on the
tube where the sector shaft is
there are some needle beering inside
the grease inside the column was new and clear, in the box not

so what to do
should i take the sector shaft from the other one to make one perfect ?

should i look inside the other one, take also all parts out the steering?

[Franz Tenbrock]

i can't wait - ever
so i took the other one off too

all bearings are ok

the difference between the two steering is
the old one has 2x needle bearings for the sector shaft
but
but it is not possible to change the sector shaft without doing anything
maybe it is possible to get the bronce? bushing out to rework the flange on top on the lathe
or
i take the new one, which is ok as i see

the old one i can prepare with a new sector shaft or sell ist as it is

there was no grease in the collum, should i make a grease nipple in it ?

i will wait for answers ;-)
meanwhile i will clean the chassis as i wanted to do

[Franz Tenbrock]

hours later, half of the frame is ready for painting
seems to be all ok in the back

[Steve Simmons]

I would NOT use the sector shaft with the welding on it. These parts are known to fail so take no chances. The grease nipple is actually an oil nipple. Use a heavy gear oil. Many use 600W oil as made for early Fords. I use Redline Heavy Shockproof oil.
https://www.redlineoil.com/heavy-shockproof

The needle bearing modification should be ok so long as there is no play. I haven't used one myself though, so maybe others have a better opinion.

The lid should have metal shims to adjust the play. There is not normally a paper gasket.

Also your worm gear appears to be a replacement item, but the wear marks look ok to me. 9212 is the part number and the other number is the manufacture date.

[Duncan M]

When a stock TC steering box is properly rebuilt with a correctly manufactured worm, the sector shaft will rise up slightly at center steer and "rub" against the top plate (only at center steer). That is why the top plate is often called the rub plate.

Defective worms are unfortunately very common in the aftermarket, and they have been a problem replacement part since early days. A defective worm will NOT cause the sector shaft to rise up at center steer and rub. It is the amount of rub that determines how many shims will be used on the top plate to achieve just the right amount of rub at center steer. If the sector shaft does not rise up that small amount at center steer, then you have a defective worm and the steering will never be right no matter what attempts are made to fix it.

Your top plate on the left indicates an attempt to get a center steer adjustment was made by adding some sort of spacer to the top plate. No good. Your right top plate also appears to have some sort of spacer, and no "rub" marks on the top plate. No good.

Your one sector shaft is knackered, and I would never use it. The other sector shaft has weld added to the top of the shaft in an attempt to rise up the shaft to achieve a center steer rub adjustment. No good.

Both your boxes appear to have defective worms, making both boxes useless for proper steering. Unfortunately, the only proper replacement worms were made by Bob Grunau in Canada, and sold through FTFU. Currently none appear available.

[Franz Tenbrock]

i am glad i opened both boxes
the welded one is for the ....
I have to buy a new one
but
the second one I cleaned and looked at again
I took some more pictures, I don't think it's broken, it just looks like it is
i think the reason is the picture i took and the scratch there
but the edge of the box is sharp and not round like it should be ?
it looks like the edge of the box has cut into the sector.
Is it possible to see something with ultrasound ?

the other box with the needle rim was probably repaired at a time when there was no internet ?!
someone tried to imitate the Tomkins function and press the sector on the worm, but this did not work because the brass / bronze bush was too high, both also incorrectly constructed.

In both boxes was grease and not oil, also probably a mistake that is certainly often made, hope that now with the INternet will be better where you can access information much faster.

is it possible to see a crack with ultrasound there.
the plate has defently more scratches in the middle

have to read this here ?!
https://ttypes.org/keeping-it-on-the-st ... ng-part-7/

have they use grease and no oil because of leaking?
why oil and no grease?
was not hard to turn the steering with the grease inside
can t sleep tonight

[Duncan M]

If grease is used, there will eventually be no fresh lubrication between the top of the sector shaft and top plate. With gear oil, each time the steering is turned right or left it sloshes oil waves to coat the top plate with reservoir oil-- which then gets between the top of sector shaft-end and rub plate. Also, when using the gear oil, it is thin enough to flow between the sector shaft and steering box body (or bronze bushing).

[Steve Simmons]

Oil will also allow contaminants to settle out, whereas grease will hold them in suspension and cause increased wear. But primarily as Duncan notes the oil will continuously lubricate all surfaces, while grease will be pushed out of the way and never return.

You can have the parts magnafluxed, or better yet x-rayed. If you want to be truly safe, just buy a new sector shaft from a reputable source. I would recommend From The Frame Up for this part.

What is concerning to me are the wear marks on the bottom of the sector shaft head. Is it rubbing on the bushing? If so then you will never be able to adjust the clearances properly.

[Franz Tenbrock]

Thanks,
what seal on the sector shaft today,
i think they had problems in the past with leaking so they use the grease.
that should be the right oneß
https://www.rudolfs-oldtimershop.de/sho ... er=product
or this here
https://www.limora.com/de/penrite-getriebeoel/313492/

w600

[Franz Tenbrock]

have taken some pictures to the place where the seal should be
on my steering there ist the needle bearing with a seal , i hope you can see it,
on the other one there is the original ? seal
but if i take a measurment there is a little difference
made a picture to explain it

not perfect drawing, i am not a professional
but i think you understand what i mean

the sector shaft has about 19 mm there

don t find any pictures in the web from this situation
have to find a modern seal for this place
27x19 ??

[Franz Tenbrock]

I don't know if I understood the backlash of the screw and the sector correctly.

As I understand it, the sector should be pressed through the cover onto the screw to reduce the clearance ( red arrow in my picture )

there should be clearance between the sector and the housing ( black arrows ).

The problem with my steering is that there is no play, the sector sits on the flange of the brass sleeve
and the corner of the sector is hard there, no rounding like on my other sector, so good for cracking there
so the original is round ther, good for no cracking

i think the brass sleeve with the needle is a good improvement
so i had to cut off some mm of the flange ( green )

also i need a radial seal ring at the bottom to have no leaking

also i have to make a measurement, is the sector going up and down, so is the worm ok

my uncle has a maschining shop in aachen, perhaps he knows one who can make the cracking test
if not
is this a good adress?
https://www.ukmgparts.com/product/tbtc- ... -tc-2a6007

[cdrolshagen]

there was never a seal for the selector shaft, just a big felt washer bitween the casing
and the steering arm,
When you want to use a proper seal you have to mashine the casing.
the lube to use is in German "Fließfett" used in Gearboxes,
cheers Carl

[Franz Tenbrock]

frame cleaned and grinded. only a few rust, painted with fertan now,
can paint it tomorrow

have asked a friend for somthing like this here, answered in a minute, will come tomorow:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/174431897349?mk ... gKEtfD_BwE

i have read this again:
https://ttypes.org/keeping-it-on-the-st ... ng-part-7/

and what have i seen there,
no shim paper gasket

looked on the webside of brown an gammons
there i found
SHIM 0.010 INCH TOP COVER STR TA-TC

also
GASKET TOP PLATE S/R TA-TC

confused
i thought the top plate press the sector to the worm
but a gasket is something different then a shim from metal
if you see the picture
https://www.ukmgparts.com/catalogue/tbt ... 3-steering
you see both
shim and gasket

a lot of time to March when i can drive the car again.
will call Brown and Gammons and buy a new one, if possible

also i will change the Drag Link & Tie Rod end LH TA-TC
i have them got in a bag when i got the car

safety first

[Franz Tenbrock]

ordered a sector shaft, was the last, called there, he looked backwards
a few washers and shims
also the seal
safety first

[cdrolshagen]

looked on the webside of brown an gammons
there i found
SHIM 0.010 INCH TOP COVER STR TA-TC

these you need to adjust the vetical play of the selector shaft,
if you have a tomkin cover you don´t need these shims, tomkin
has a spring to press the selector shaft down,
cheers Carl

[Steve Simmons]

As I understand it, the sector should be pressed through the cover onto the screw to reduce the clearance ( red arrow in my picture )

there should be clearance between the sector and the housing ( black arrows ).

That's correct. There needs to be clearance so the sector can follow the worm's vertical change. It's only a few thousandths of an inch.

The top plate puts pressure on the sector farther out, above the pin, on the flat machined section. The Tompkins puts pressure a bit farther toward the shaft, closer to center of movement. For this reason some people argue against the Tompkins kit. But you are correct that no shims are necessary for the Tompkins kit since it is adjustable. You can use a gasket with the Tompkins kit. You could use it with either I suppose, but it doesn't make much sense to me with the flat lid and shims since the shims won't be sealed. The gasket might help if the lid isn't perfectly flat I suppose.

The Buell article lists the seal as a National #240735.