Anyone here done the VW Steering box converstion?

[pleask]

If so, could you kindly contact me off line (pleask@shaw.ca) as I have a couple of questions I was hoping you could help me with.

Thanks, Pat

[Steve Simmons]

I have Datsun. Similar but different.

[pleask]

Thanks Steve, but I need a VW guy as that is what I have. Pat

[Kameron M]

Steve, I'm curious about your Datsun conversion. It seems to me that the parts are more difficult to find, but what are the advantages of it?

I've been considering doing a conversion one way or the other, mostly because I want to have a collapsible column and the safety improvements that come with that and having a stronger pitman arm.

[Steve Simmons]

I'm not aware of any collapsible column that fits a TC. The Datsun parts are indeed hard to find these days. And especially in this country since they are RHD. Australia seems to be the best source.

The advantage of the Datsun steering over VW is that the ratio is better. Either one makes the car steer like a truck, but the VW is even slower. The advantage however, is that you can drive down the road in a straight line with one finger on the wheel. In order to have the same kind of stability with the original box, it needs to be in top condition and properly set up. The Datsun (and VW) drop arms are also stronger than the original.

Keep in mind that although you gain ease of steering and better control, you only gain them by giving up the characteristic high responsiveness of the original. If my car wasn't already converted when I got it, I'm not sure whether or not I'd actually do it. There are certainly good arguments either way.

[Kameron M]

Do you happen to know what model datsun the box comes from? I see a few on ebay now and then, but all the models are different across the board.

My goal for this TC isn't a daily driver, but it is a car I intend on driving. As such, in my long term plans for it, there are a number of improvements that I am dedicated to making. A collapsible steering column is one of those important facets, and hopefully when I have more cash to spend on it, I can get it done. It is going to be a matter of custom machining, but hopefully simple custom machining.

The reason i wanted to do a conversion was mostly because the original Bishop Cam steering boxes are a one-piece unit, with the column that just juts out of the thing all the way to the steering wheel. Given that I have an original box with a tompkins kit that feels in reasonably good order: i would rather sell that to someone who wants to have one for originality's sake (and the bucks it will kick back) rather than taking a torch to it.

Maybe a lot of people see this a different way, but I think the biggest attraction to upgrading the steering is no longer having a four foot long lance pointing directly at the center of my chest as I drive. Not that I intend on wrecking a TC, but having a steering column that doesn't impale the driver is a big safety improvement cars have made in the past 30 years, undeniably so. Furthermore, the TC, being a light car with a thin frame and a weak body shell, along with a VERY long steering column -- well it really does irk me, actually. Say what you want about the engineering and lightness- yes it is a wonderfully designed car for what it is, light, supple, nimble... but compared to some contemporary cars of its era, and especially compared to cars we have now, and it really is...

As an american journalist put it "A coffin riding on four harps"

So, my goal is to have some sort of simple, custom steering arrangement made. The most straightforward one that I have come up with so far is to have the steering column divided into two segments: The first segment being what mates to the steering wheel, with splines for the original wheel and a square bar stock segment at the other end. The other section being a length of square tube that connects to the steering box itself. The joint between these two pieces would have some form of a weak shear pin, like a plastic pin or small cotter pin or otherwise, that during normal mode of operation will not take any of the turning force due to the square shape of the other two pieces.

Though, there are a few challenges in implementing this design. One of the big ones is the splines on the end of the steering column for the wheel appear to be very non standard.

This part of the project is a ways down the road, I think, due to cost and due to the fact that it could be accomplished when the car is more together than it is, though I am keeping it in my thoughts in case a good opportunity rolls by...

Speaking of which, if anyone happens by this post and also happens to have a trashed steering column that they would be willing to sell on the cheap that would be awesome.

The other big safety improvement I wanted to make was the addition of bumpers. I happened across a very affordable set of bumpers from an MG TD with the MG monogram on there and a set of chrome overriders, and I am going to have a plate made so these can be mounted up to the TC frame nicely. I also don't think the metal stick poles that people mount to their TC's look good at all, personally I think they look kind of goofy.

[Steve Simmons]

The TC isn't exactly a safe car in any regard. But, I have still never heard of anyone being killed by a steering column. A member of this group had a serious head-on collision last year and I don't recall the column being an issue. But I guess anything is possible.

If you really want to put bumpers on the car (which in my opinion ruins the lines), you could seek out a set of correct TC-EXU bumpers. They pop up every now and then. They won't do a lot of good anyway, a bit of thin metal about a foot below the bumper of the average modern car! If someone backs into you, the first thing they will likely hit are the tires. That's when you realize the wheels of a TC actually protrude forward beyond all bodywork!

[Kameron M]

Well call me a lucky S.O.B.

I was told they were TD bumpers - but looking at pictures, I believe my bumper set is the TC EXU one

For one thing, the rear one has the cast MG monogram dead center

[stephen stierman]

Personally I think bumpers do not look good at all on a TC and do nothing in terms of crash protection. In terms of safety, the rear bumper is essentially the gas tank! Side impact is a joke, ash provides little impact resistance if any. Believe me when I drive my Morgan or my TC I am not the first one through a green light at an intersection and I do have lap belts. As far as a front end collision, there really is a fair amount of chassis and axle in front of that steering box. If I wanted a collapsible column I would probably cut the shaft and install a couple of u Joints or perhaps think about installing the rag coupling and related from a Beetle, but I am not going to. And then there is the lighting at the rear, I have gone to the extreme and done all I can by installing turn indicators and a second D lamp. If one really wants to make sure other drivers observe brake lights you will need to install a couple of great big trailer lamps up on top of that gas tank.
Life is just fraught with danger and safety in a TC is just laughable.

[Marv]

Pat, this thread has digressed from your original question to one about bumpers, collapsible steering columns and nerf bars.

On your VW box question, I believe the recognized expert on the VW conversion is Bud Silvers out of Colorado Springs. Try and look him up and talk to him. I know he sells complete changeover kits for just under $1400 or $1500. Every so often, he throws one up on eBay as well. I don't have any direct contact info for him, he's probably on the list, I'd do a search there.

To my knowledge, he doesn't offer a collapsible steering column option on it and doesn't sell bumpers or nerf bars.

Marv
TC5141

p.s. I searched eBay and he has one up at the moment with lots of dialogue and pictures, will probably help you out. eBay item number: 111931743617

[pleask]

Hi Marv, ya I kinda noticed the thread changed it's colours But oh well, it's all interesting reading and the topic has not changed so it's all good. Bud no longer sells the kits, he has sold that all to a fellow named Martin email is martinwillis@comcast.net and Martin only sells the compete kit.

I was hoping not to bother Bud (And Martin) by trying the list for someone who has done this, as I also have a couple of other questions (than one specific concern I have now), as I install the system.
Pat

[Marv]

If that is not Bud's listing on Ebay then who I wonder? Certainly there are a number of listers out there who have done this mod. I'm surprised that no-one has directly responded to your post. The eBay listing references Jim Goodwin as being a recipient of one of Bud's kits. He may be a lister.

Marv

[pleask]

I just saw the listing, the seller is the fellow who I mentioned above. Now to find Jim!

[stephen stierman]

The current advert. on ebay for the VW set up is, I believe Bud's offering. He still may have a few to sell.

[Norman Tuck]

I installed a Bud Silvers conversion on TC/6864 about 5 years ago. I am very pleased with the quality, the ease of installation and the ultimate handling of the car.
The kit does not provide a collapsible steering column, but I accept that driving a TC is inherently dangerous.
I believe that Bud has handed over his conversion business to someone else, and that the kits are now available at http://mwthemachineshop.com/vwvsbc.

If new providers furnish a kit identical to the one I installed and offer the same degree of service, I would recommend them.
Good luck to you.
Norman Tuck

[pleask]

Thanks Norman, I basically have the same kit but I had questions on it's installation more so than if it's a good kit, it's a fantastic kit for sure. I did get my questions answered so all is good.
Pat