Machining old rear hubs for tapered Halfshafts

[Kameron M]

Hello All,
So, out of 1/4 part convenience and 3/4 parts time, I decided to upgrade to tapered halfshafts and keep my old rear hubs, having them re-machined to accept the taper fit. Has anyone gone this route? What should I let the machinist know about my hubs in doing this?

I did manage to find a machine shop that seemed willing to help. Their idea was to make a steel blank and use a CNC lathe to cut the tapered hole in the blank, adjusting if necessary and then machining the hubs

Are rear hubs prone to cracks? Should I have them tested, or anything of the sort beforehand?
Thanks all
-kam-

[Gene Gillam]

I've done it on 2 TC's, Kam...tell your machinist it's a #4 Morse taper...he'll have, or should have, the proper taper cutter in the shop.

I'm not an expert on rear hubs but I've never heard of one cracking and you're not really taking that much more meat out of the hub than the hole that's already in there. You're more prone to have problems with worn outer splines on the hub (mates with the splines in the wheel) than anything else.

Gene

[Kameron M]

So, a bit of confusion here: Roger recommended that I use a CNC shop for this, but this is beginning to sound like any machine shop would work. Gene, did you use CNC or did you have it done on a mechanical lathe?

I'd figure that having this done 'manually' would be cheaper, no?

[Warmuthb]

New tapered rear hubs are cheap compared to what you'd have in having the old ones machined. There are folks out there who have them and have been supplying them for a while. Of course you'll also need the tapered axles...but you already know that.
Check Doug Pelton at FTFU.com

Brian W.

[Gene Gillam]

Kam, I use a machine shop...charged $25 each to do the work on a mechanical lathe. It's not rocket science. I believe that Pat Leask (posts here) recently had the work done in Canada...maybe he'll chime in.

Gene

[pleask]

Hi Kam, sorry I have not been reading the list of late as I'm above knee deep in another project so the TC has, I'm afraid, taken a back seat tin progress. A friend of mine nudged me about your question and I'm happy to be of help, if I can that is Yes, I converted to the tapered axles on my TC just a couple of months ago, I also installed the Morris 10 diff along with the sealed bearing kit from FTFU. But I digress, you were simply asking about machining your old hubs to fit the new style axles.

Gene is correct, it is simply a #4 Morse taper,I think that this is simply a tool/reamer they put on a lathe. I have a bunch of information on them I can send you if you want to email me direct ( pleask "at" shaw.ca ). A local machine shop here (but a very good one) did it for me with no issues what so ever, I think they used a standard lathe with the #4 Morse taper tool that as Gene said, should be common to most machine shops.

The people I used here in Victoria BC, Canada were Foreman CNC Machining Ltd B-2071 Malaview Ave, Sidney, BC V8L 5X6 call 778-426-0847. Each hub cost me $160.00 Canadian, if you choose to send your hubs to them or to get information ensure you talk to the owner as he is who I dealt with. His wife who also works there is pretty good as well.

As I said, I'm not on this list much right now so if you need help email me directly okay. Pat

[Kameron M]

I think the #4 morse taper was the magic bit of info I needed. My rear hubs are in good shape with the exception of the internal splines. The wheels chunk on and off quite satisfactorily. I will wait for my axles to come in from Roger, and I will ask him for my own personal eh- call it 'satisfaction' to know that he uses that taper as well. I was mostly wondering if a machine shop could do this without CNC, and it sounds overwhelmingly like it will.

160 CAD per hub for a taper fitment sounds eggregiously expensive to me from what I have heard from other people? Was that for an entire hub?

It sounds like I simply need an older fellow with a nice South Bend lathe or some such, and a pile of old tooling who will have a conversation with me that goes something along the lines of

"Morse taper? Hang on."
*sound of sifting through a storeroom of old tooling*
"yep, I have that."

If that is in fact all it is, and it sounds like Gene had this experience, then I don't see why a CNC machine would help at all. My guess is a CNC machine would be required if the taper cutter was not available, but I bet someone out in the cleveland area just has the tool, and if they have the tool, the only matter of concern is depth and centering, which... I simply cannot imagine would be an issue for anyone with machining experience.

I've done some myself, but I don't want to risk $300 on hubs to save $50 when all i've made on a lathe yet was a hammer handle. Maybe someday.

[Kameron M]

On a side note, I'm starting work at a friction welding company soon, as a field service engineer. My grey matter is getting a little itchy about this very subject, actually, because I think that rotary friction welding would actually work really well for TC rear hubs, which would furnish the hub and halfshaft as a single piece, effectively forging the two together as one piece. You could even do this with a bar of 1 inch steel of a satisfactory hardness mated to a milder steel rudge whitworth hub, and thus quite possibly make a halfshaft and hub assembly that would simply never break.

This would, however, require that the hub be made with no hole in the middle, and so a used hub could not be made, but it would lower the manufacturing price of the hub some. The friction welding process would probably be a significant expense at low volumes, but I suspect the halfshaft itself to be cheaper: because you would only need splines on one end!

Maybe I'm thinking too much about this. When you have a giant hammer, everything looks like a nail, but... seeing this hub issue and the lengths people go to fix it, perhaps this would be a neat next step.

Food for thought, anyways.

[Ross Taylor]

I jut stuck them in the lathe and set up the tool with the aid of a #4 morse taper drill sleeve and bored them out to fit the axles . you will have to initially bore out the hubs to remove the splines to a diameter equal to the smallest diameter the axle, I bought a #4 morse taper reamer off EBAY to ensure the taper was correct. biggest problem was the keyway with I had wire cut by a local toolmaker

Ross
in Tea Gardens

[Gene Gillam]

Although I had the key way cut I'm not using it. My machinist assured me the friction fit of the taper would be sufficient and many miles of use has proved that to be very good advice.

Gene