Recomended lubricants

[JeffMoore64]

Good evening,

MG TC manual lists about 6 different lubricants, none of which a manufactured any more. Does anyone have a cross reference to current lubricants?

This is what I have so far:

Oil = 5W30
Brake fluid = DOT 3 or 4

Need the rest...

Car has been in storage for 10 years and I'm going to drain everything and fill it with new before thinking about starting her.

Thanks

Jeff

[tcremesal]

Moss has a good gear oil for pumpkin and transmission (Classic gear oil EP 140 GL4) Snyder has 600 wt. oil for steering box.(M-533 ) There may be others . I may try the 600 wt. oil in my transmission . Any thoughts ? TC

[frenchblatter]

I've used EP180 in the gerabox and diff. (Make sure you fill to the side plug of the diff, not the filler-don't ask how I know this)

The engine has 20W/60 running in oil about to be replaced with 20W/60 normal, mineral oil.

All available from Moss or NTG in the UK.

[JeffMoore64]

I'd think that 20W/60 would be too thick for engine oil, The Manual recommends Esso 30 which the local car shop looked up on their systems and gave the 5W30 as well.

Have the oil drained at this point but am not going to fill it until I'm comfortable with the oil weight choice. I probably didn't need to change the oil as it looked pristine.

Please expand on the gearbox side plug fill vs filler. I haven't investigated those two locations yet so don't know the ease of access for the side plug. It just sounds harder.

Anyway thanks for all the tips and for the tips to come!!

Jeff

[Kameron M]

The Motor Oil I was pointed to by another Forum was:
Chevron Delo 400LE 15w40 HDEO CJ-4 Diesel Engine / Heavy Duty Oil.

Multiweight oils are undoubtedly superior to their single-weight counterparts in almost all applications. In the XPAG engine, it is particularly important to note that it was originally designed with a thick multi-weight oil in mind, and also made with the flat-tappet cams (unless upgraded) and is generally a high-wear engine (undersquare, etc)

Point being, it was designed at a time when ZDDP was added to most oils for extra protection of the metal internals, and that practice is no longer ZDDP can be added to regular motor oil with additive, though oil additives in general tend to be questionable - at best - as to their claims.

Nonetheless, CJ-4 (or CI-4 if you can find it, it has more ZDDP, but I digress) has an adequate amount of ZDDP speced for the anti-wear properties to help the XPAG engine, and is available in a variety of weights. To me, 15w40 seemed like a pretty solid bet.

However, all that I have done with the engine of my MG thus far (due to work space issues, moving into a new house, carb trouble, ah lots of exucses... point being, I have not started her yet, being not in a rush to despite my desire to see that happen. I just put it in because I think its the right oil and I'll see how well it works soon.)

5w30 is NOT equivalent to straight-30 weight oil. Whoever told you this has told you very wrong. That oil is much too thin for the MG engine. 10w40 would be better for sure.

As for the Diff/Trans: I'm going to run Brad Penn but I forget what grade. If you want to go the full botique oil route, Brad Penn is a reputable oil company which makes a lot of products SPECIFICALLY tailored to older vehicles combining modern specs and technology with various (often hard-to-find) weights and grades optimized for the design of the older stuff.

For the Carbs I'm using some kind of bar-and-chain oil. I think its straight-20 weight. I remember reading up on it, maybe here? Someone chime in please i'm not at my garage looking at the dang bottle. What I remember is straight 20 weight is the best for the operation of the carb cylinder thingymadoobadobsthatgoupanddown. (what are those called? The round whatevers. Those carbs are crazy complex.)

For the shocks I'm using Abingdon Spares shock absorber fluid.

The steering box I haven't decided on yet. Probably going to see what BradPenn has for heavy heavy gear lube.

[JeffMoore64]

Okay!! I've not put any of the stuff they sold me at AutoZone into the car as I was hoping for so discussion here. Thanks, you all probably save me untold dollars and head/heart ache. So found an MG repair shop in the area (Denver) today and am dragging my used oil filter in as he says he has a replacement. So that sounds promising!! He also mentioned that the discussion about replacement lube was too big to have via the phone. I expect I'll have some info to report back here following our discussion, if for no other reason than to keep a log of what I've learned so I can look it up again when memory fails me.

Thanks all,

Jeff

[frenchblatter]

I drianed my hot 20w60 yesterday and it was like water.

The filler plug I referred to is in the axle. There's a large brass filler and a smal side plug. Remove both and fill through the top until it runs out the side. When it stops running refit both plugs.

[Kameron M]

Jeff, you have many options here about the oil filter which you may not be aware of. It sounds like you have either the original filter cannister or a two part canister design, both while looking original and all do not have the same filtration abilities as a modernoil filter. Nonetheless what you do here is your call. Personally I have the spin on filter and hydraulic hose upgrade for my oil system and am satisfied with how it looks, the general convenience, and the cost of making that switch.

Nonetheless, in my personal experience, unless you are trying to score originality points at a show, it seems that the oil system on these cars as original is somewhat feevle, prone to leaking due to rupture of the copper lines / banjo bolt seal leaking, and does not filter well, which these two kits seem to solve marvellously.

The charming fellow in England, Roger Furneaux has these available for purchase. I want to say I spent $200 or so for both kits.

[Gene Gillam]

Highly recommend Valvoline VR-1 20w50 motor oil. High ZDDP content and readily available

[Richard Michell]

Oil choice is for some reason the most controversial subject. I usually stay quiet but I just cannot let the comments by Kameron M pass.

At the time that the XPAG engine was designed there was no such thing as a multigrade engine oil on the market and the amount of zinc dithiophosphate added was minimal. Quality engine oils from the period 1931 to 1963 have been classified retrospectively as SB performance level under the SAE system. They contained small amounts of antioxidants, anticorrosion and antiwear additives. They were monograde in viscosity and also contained no detergents or dispersants. Zinc levels were of the order of 0.04% mass maximum. Any gasoline engine oil marketed today has at least twice that amount of zinc and it is in a more active chemical form.

However it is, in my opinion, foolish to try to choose an oil today that matches those of the 1940s and early 50s. Those oils were way inferior to anything marketed today - not just their lack of additives but the much lower quality of their base oils.

[Gene Gillam]

Richard,

Understand what you're saying but when cam makers recommend high ZDDP levels when using flat tappet cams then that particular additive is important and is only found in sufficient quantity in certain commercial oils.
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/flat-tappet-cam-tech/

[Robert Brennan]

Highly recommend Valvoline VR-1 20w50 motor oil. High ZDDP content and readily available

I think many of us follow Gene's recommendation. In addition, I run Red Line 75W 140NS in the gearbox and Red Line 80W 140 in the diff. (both synthetic). Previous owner did the same.
This year I've tried out Mobil 1 15W50 in the TR 3 and have been pleasantly surprised at the increased oil pressure during longer drives. About the same number of garage floor drips as conventional oil.

Bob Brennan
S. Freeport, ME
TC7794EXU

[Julian Evers]

I am a great believer in imitation. My engine was built by George Edney to a high specification. I asked him what he used in his racing engine and he showed me Valvoline VR1 20/50, so that is what I use.

best regards

Julian

[Richard Michell]

Gene, I was responding mainly to Kameron's two statements that the XPAG engine "was originally designed with a thick multi-weight oil in mind" and "it was designed at a time when ZDDP was added to most oils for extra protection of the metal internals, and that practice is no longer (the case?)". IMHO neither is correct, and demonstrably so.

Valvoline VR1 20W/50 is a very good oil for the XPAG, provided the 20W/50 viscosity characteristics are appropriate for where you live. Despite its name it is a balanced oil - not just designed for racing. A full race oil will in general be very good for antioxidation and antiwear but not for short trip, stop/start driving and not for longish drain intervals.

My other comment - that I believe it is foolish to try to match the inferior oils of the distant past - was partly in response to suggestions to use EP180 or Snyder 600 weight in diffs or gearboxes. The Snyder oil is actually SAE250 I believe and is trying to reproduce the oil recommended by Ford in the 1920s for the Model T. Again not appropriate or relevant for our cars, in my opinion, and neither is an EP oil (although an understandable confusion on this one as MG made this mistaken recommendation themselves, at a time when EP chemistry was new and not widely understood. It had been developed/commercialised by the US military during the War).

[Duncan M]

20W50 is typical, unless you have a hot rod XPAG in there.

[Kameron M]

Eheh I typed multi weight when I meant single weight. I think I went on to day multi weight came about later? I was a bit out of it when I posted this but... what I was trying to get at was the mg tc was originally designed with sae 30 and sae 40 in mind, and the multi weight came later but is astronomically better, but 530 is not equivalent at all to sae30 and would be a very bad idea.

As for zddp I thought it was in old motor oil but it sounds like it's a new thing. Regardless zddp is good for high wear engines, no doubt.

20w50 seems a little syrupy. Maybe that's a good thing but it seems to high. I'd see it working well in a big block race engine and such but with the xpag oil pump design and the thin copper tubed used to send the oil about and all the banjo bolts everywhere wouldn't there be some concern as to proper lubricant delivery therein?

[Gene Gillam]

Kam, it's only "syrupy" until it gets warm...which doesn't take long.

[Steve Simmons]

20W-50 is perfect for engines like these. and is what most MGs run, from pre-war to MGB. I use VR-1 in the TC (and two of the other old cars), which by the way is NOT true racing oil. It's just labeled that way as a marketing gimmick and perhaps to skirt some additive laws. But it is a high quality oil with sufficient ZDDP levels for older cars. 5W-30 is far too thin in my opinion.

In the rear axle I use Royal Purple 75W-140. Another high quality product that is safe on yellow metals and offers excellent protection.

For the gearbox I run 140W EP as specified by the manufacturer. Any brand will do, even some GL-5 oils are good so long as they are marked as safe for yellow metals. Do not use a GL-5 oil that is not clearly designed to be safe in a GL-4 application and marked as safe for bronze, etc. Some people have good luck with Redline products in the gearbox as well.

For brake fluid, I use DOT 4 in the TC although some run DOT 5 silicon. I use it in other cars and have in the TC before, but chose to stay with DOT 4 in the long run for this car.

[Richard Michell]

We may as well try to clear up another small misunderstanding. Marketers can formulate their oils in any way they please. However they can only claim that they meet specific industry specs if they comply with the full specification, including in some cases limitations on particular chemicals. Use of a term such as "Racing" does not by-pass the rules.

There are I understand two viscosity grades of Valvoline VR1. The restrictions on Phosphorus in modern engine oils, which indirectly gives a restriction on zinc, only applies to viscosity grades that are relevant to modern cars. 20W/50 is not relevant. 10W/30 is. Hence the approval situation listed by Valvoline for their product is as shown in the attachment. The chemistry of the two viscosity grades is identical. 20W/50 can claim compliance with SH to SM while the "identical" 10W/30 cannot.

Hope this can be followed.

[Rocketsled]

These lubrication forum discussions can run on ad nauseum!
Engine: SAE 30 HD, or SAE 20W HD for colder temps. W stands for Winter and HD stands for Heavy Duty, i.e.,
High Detergent. 20W-50 was developed for the original Mini, because a heavier-bodied lubricant was needed for the gearbox, which shared the engine oil. Oil pressure developes as resistance to flow. SAE 20 HD has additives to make it cold flow like SAE 10W when cold, and to maintain a Viscocity Index like SAE 30 when hot- it is called 10W-30 HD. When the additives lose their effectivness, the oil reverts to SAE 20. I run SAE 30HD in Summer and SAE 10W-30 in cold weather.
Back in the day, old timers used SAE 20 year 'round. Full synthetic oils like PAO are great in many stressed application, but the could leak past seals that still retain mineral oils. Synthetic blends are approximately 10-15% synthetic oil added to mineral oil. They are an excellent choice for most applications, and cost less than full synthetics. Semi-Synthetics are blends of full synthetic oils, usually for increased detergency.
Gearbox and Differential: TC Owner 's Handbook Reccomends SAE 140. No EP needed. TD differential is the Hypoid Bevel Gear type and requires SAE 90 EP. Corrosive EP additives were phased out starting in 1957.
Steering gearbox: SAE 90, 140, but semi-fluid grease, N.L.G.I. 00 ( zero zero) works better. TD steering rack & pinion
Takes SAE 30 oil, not grease, many cars are driven with grease, however.
S.U. Carb. Dashpots-SAE 20W, but many owners use ATF, or Marvel Mystery Oil. I use SAE 20W in summer and MMO in col weather.
Rocketsled-S.T.L.E. Certified Lubrication Specialist
Dynamo: use regular chassis grease, which is around 95% oil plus thickener and additives. When the bushing warms up, oil bleeds out of the grease to cool it.
Chassis and front wheel bearings-Use a N.L.G.I. 2 grease with MoS2. Same, but with PAO synthetic base oil is much better.