Front scuttle capping

[ian theobald]

G.day again.I have ordered new timber for my front passenger door so while I am waiting have removed all traces of body filler (Bog) from the top of capping where it finishes under dash down to bottom door bump rubber.
As my door was hung too low , the top capping had a good 1/4 inch or more of filler to compensate.
Just to compensate,who ever made the dash board added nearly 1/2 inch extra to finnish level with top of the door.
Never mind as have all new vinyl to cover when new trim eventually gets fitted so can cut dash to correct shape.
What I need to know is if capping is at right angle to side scuttle panel
On my car starts at bottom at possibly 100 degrees angle and area each side of striker close to 90 degrees and then angles to possibly 80 degrees near dash.
Just to make more difficult is the fact that all capping has been welded and not all flat.
I can get the correct profile off metal curve of opening and will hang door to suit.
Just holding door unhinged seems to conform to opening now all the filler at top removed.
Just wondering if should build up with thin layer at right angles to side of car all the way.
I know some purist will say should be lead wiped but I have worked for 43 yrs as a phone technician plumbing lead cables in the past
I had a bit of a scare recently when had blood tests indicate high levels of lead.
Had been working a lot recently on opening and repairing and sealing a lot of old lead sheath cables but secondary tests showed had cleared.
Dangerous stuff.
Unfortunately the drivers side is not much better to compare with.
Any help appreciated.thanks Ian

[stephen stierman]

Ian can you post some photos showing the deficit?

[ian theobald]

Here are some pictures .As you can see it,s a bit messy but had to remove as could not lift door higher up .
Auto body filler hides a multitude of sins and have purchased some that has stainless fillings in it for extra strength.
In the picture you can see how much the dash was made to match the door.
One has to wonder why some previous owner did not try and raise the door to the correct height ,even the metal skin has been ground away at top rear corner where it should overhang slightly over the rear tub.
Other than that the car is very straight and rock solid with not one rattle, even without that Body tub cross brace or wheel arch brace.
Having trouble attaching more pictures.
My drivers side door now has new timber and have fitted the best I can but capping around scuttle also messy from welding but at least TC doors fit outside the body and any drop not to noticeable.
My previous car was a 2 1/2 ltr Riley and doors fitted within so very difficult to disguise a poor fit and would chip floor paint over any bump in the road ,even after being re timbered and new hinge pins

[ian theobald]

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Here are a few more pictures.
If I use the door as a guide then would asume capping would be at a right angle to body panels as appears square on door side.

[stephen stierman]

It is difficult to see what the deficit is up there without the door as a reference against the body. Is it that the area directly below the scuttle seam is slightly pushed in allowing a gap between the top of the door when closed and the body?

[ian theobald]

Just need to work out if distance across metal runs at right angles from side of car all the way around opening as mine varies .
In theory would be parralell with door from top to bottom but in my case some areas where interior trim attach is much closer than outside of car and other areas the opposite.
Think I will just go with a set square and follow the curvature of opening and build up either side to make even from top to bottom.
Once door fitted can build up again if gap to much

[John Cockrem]

For your interest Ian, mine is at right angles all around.I believe it to be the orig timber.
Re your bulls horn, The Melb centre is having an MG only swap meet on Saturday, would you like me to look out for one, or make some inquiries to see if any one has a spare.

[Peter deBruyn]

Looks to me as though the problem is with the scuttle, not the door hanging.
The scuttle bottom seam line should be basically a straight continuation of the
hood hinge line, with a bit of a kick-up at the end. Yours angles up way too much
towards the dash - and some DPO has tried to fill in the gap by extending the
quarter panel upward, making a mess of everything. A new proper scuttle
should go a long way towards fixing things ...

Pete in NY

[ian theobald]

I now have the new timber fitted to my door and note new timber is checked out for door hinges.
My problem now is that the timber and metal skin on the body tub was also checked out for hinges but this timber is not original.
I have filled this in with 3 ply and sanded flush but found I needed to fit a small aluminium shim in between hinge and timber at bottom of body tub but the door still tends to scrape on floor at bottom front corner.
I note that on the drivers side my top rear section of door sits above body panel behind it, about the same amount that door skin overhangs down the side .
This door fits reasonably well up to dash area.[see previous pictures]
My passenger door fits level at rear and someone has cut away about 5mm from end .
If I fill bottom screw holes with dowel land raise think will greatly improve the fit.
I was thinking of slipping thick cardboard or similar on top of door sill so I can rest door on top of it and mark where hinges allign with tub timber but difficult to do on ones own.
So am I correct that door should sit above body at the rear and slightly cover?
On a brighter note ,my passenger door fits neatly against the body ,even with out any turn buckle.
The new timber purchased was much thicker but with this door it still had all its original timber except the upright bit for hinge
.I was able to measure with calliper all along and compare new timber to match.
as with the other door the bottom corners were different so had to check out to suit.
This also applied to new metal capping that goes inside corners between hinges and found was to wide .
This I fixed by flattening out outer edge and removing 5mm and re folding .
The passenger door sits much closer to dash area now so once hinges repositioned may even be able to remove shim.
It may be that body to chassis packing needs altering but will try the easy path first. Ian theobald

[Richard Michell]

I think Peter is right. Your problem is that the scuttle has been heavily modified. Here are two photos of mine (ignore the paint chips). The scuttle line is close to straight, sloping up just a little near the cockpit.

Re the rear, the door height should match the body. Both have the same "rolled" profile and they should match as a "continuous" line.

I built my car from "bits". The doors were from a different original car. Fitting is a challenge. "New" timber should not be viewed as a template but a starting point IMHO.

[ian theobald]

Thanks for the pictures .Both sides of my car have similar profile but left side of dash is much wider.
One thing I notice is timber in body pillar may be incorrect as quite a gap between metal panel at the bottom and wood underneath where it curves up to bottom hinge where the top is almost hard overlapping the timber.
Putting shims under the bottom hinge brings out about the same distance as the top one so I think will be a case of compromise .
with new metal capping on the inside to cover and some thin ply tapered down from top to bottom and no one will know once trim fitted.
If I can get both doors to be of similar fit will be happy.
I owned a 2 1/2 ltr Riley for 35 yrs and was amazed at how much they varied in body fit such as front guards up to scuttle and no door was interchangeable .
At least a TC door hangs outside the body and not as obvious if dropped or damaging to paint.
Riley doors ,even if retimbered would always chip inside sill and edges which was annoying but they all did it.
Next project now is to recess the striker plate as even with shimming under door lock to replicate door trim it does not close on 2nd lock but never did before I think .
I have purchased those safety latches that are available as my door shows evidence of flying open.
will keep you posted.ian Theobald

[ian theobald]

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After looking at photos and other side of car it is clearly apparent the difference which explains why passenger door gap varies.
I have raised door now to what is similar to the drivers side so may be a case of filling up variations with auto body filler as before but would not be to the same extent.
Dash is good half inch wider passenger side so will have to trim down as well.
Would never of noticed the difference untill looked closly where bend kicks up.
One side before window and drivers side after