TC Brass Engine Tags

[TBrad]

The MGCC T Register has done some work on T Type engine block date castings, including the date coding used, and you can find our conclusions at
https://www.mgcc.co.uk/t-register/regis ... stingdates
Using this code, Duncan M's block is dated as 8 April 1949 and Steve Simmons' (if the photo is indeed upside down) as 17 March 1949.
There is another article on the other block and head casting numbers and logos at
https://www.mgcc.co.uk/t-register/wp-co ... ers-v8.pdf.
Note the caveats at the end of the date coding document and we'd be interesting in seeing pictures of any variations.
David

That actually makes more sense.im away from home at the moment, but I’ll check mine when I get back. Thanks for all the input.

[Tom Lange, MGT Repair]

Duncan - I'm sorry that I read through your post too quickly, and replied even quicker, without knowing what I was saying! My apologies for muddying the waters.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair

[Duncan M]

Thanks David. That makes perfect sense. Not sure where my erroneous idea of decades came from?

Tom, you were on to something, there.

Steve, If you look real close on my engine date code pic, you will see little hints of red paint under the "oil" coating.

[TBrad]

All very interesting, which leads me to wonder if the theory that the engine stamping is a date code and mine is 15 C 5 (15 March 1945), if it could possibly be an engine built over a year earlier could end up in #0777? I don't recall when MG restarted production after the war, and I have seen an explanation of block codes somewhere, so I'll do some more research.

[TBrad]

Upon further review, the casting number on the engine is 24142, which relates to an early TC block.

[Mark Strang]

My upside down numbers are 11C9 which based on the previous discussions indicate the block was cast on March 11, 1949 and yet my chassis record shows that TC7801 was built on Feb 2, 1949. I'm confused.

[Tom Lange, MGT Repair]

I've seen a number of those anomalies, which makes me question whether they even are date codes...

Tom Lange
MGT Repair

[Duncan M]

What is there to be confused about, Mark?

[Mark Strang]

Duncan- If the date coding is in fact correct, then my car has a different engine in it than when built since the engine supposedly was made after the car was built. Could the tag have been put on another engine at some point or installed on another block by someone else or was it changed by the factory or a dealer or on and on. It really doesn't make any difference to me. No one will ever know or probably care. This study is going much deeper than 99% of TC owners will ever go but it's fun to try and recreate what went on in the past. I think that half of the fun of a restoration is the research that goes into rebuilding the car.

[Duncan M]

Many States titled cars by only the engine number when these cars were new and in the 50's. That could have been an incentive to keep the engine numbers consistent after the original engine was blown, and a running engine was found at the salvage yard to replace it.

[Mark Strang]

Duncan,
This is really getting deep. I have some history on TC7801. It was purchased in Scotland by an English dealer who sold it to a fellow over here in New York via an ad in Road and Track in 1972. Perhaps the engine was changed out prior to arriving here.
I have been told that TC's were sometimes shipped to Australia in groups of 5 or 6 at a time. TC 7797 through TC 7802 were supposedly built at the same time and sent to Australia however TC 7801 is unaccounted for in that shipment per my contact. So, was it really shipped out or did it stay in the England area or how did it end up in Scotland and at what point was the engine changed out? Based on the date code, it seems as if the block at least had been replaced if the date code info is correct. Lots of unanswered questions including the engine issue. At this point it really doesn't make any difference but the history is fascinating. It would be a really good story if TC7801 actually shipped was to Australia, Scotland, England, and then the US.

[Don Walker]

I have a TC block with C 9 but the ID plate is XPAG 99***. This would make it 1939 and a TB engine but I'm sure they never made over 9000 TBs.

[Tom Lange, MGT Repair]

Don - that's a very high number - impossibly so - for ANY XPAG engine! Is that a replacement engine tag, or the octagonal brass tag on the engine? If you let me know the engine number in full I may be able to identify the car from which it came.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair
tlange@acadia.net

[Duncan M]

Tom, if it an actual TC block, the C 9 indicates March '49. A slim chance it could also indicate a March '39 TB block. If it is a TB block it will have a different engine casting number than a TC. That block casting number is located above and to the right of the large "MG" Octagon, behind the generator.
TB block is 24001 while a TC block from '49 would be 24146.
see: https://www.mgcc.co.uk/t-register/wp-co ... ers-v8.pdf

[Tom Lange, MGT Repair]

Duncan - yes, I own TB0327. I was addressing the fact that Don noted that his XPAG engine had a number of "99xxx", which is impossibly high for an XPAG. Either the engine has one fewer digit than stated, or it might be a replacement block, in which case the nunber tag would be different in appearance than the usual octagonal one.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair

[Don Walker]

You are correct Tom, one too many asterisks. The number is 9925. I was going by a previous post that said D represents the fourth decade, I assumed that C would be the third. The casting no. is 24146. Another block is 24146 also, with 12 D 8 cast into it, no engine tag though.

[Duncan M]

Don, In addition to the block casting number and the date stamp cast in the block, there is almost always another engine number stamped just above where the brass tag sits. Originally, that stamped number was identical to the number the brass tag displayed. It is not stamped very deeply, so can be difficult to spot.

[Don Walker]

I've rubbed down the bellhousing just above where the tag would be but can't see anything, I know the TF has the number stamped on the block above the ID plate. I have the correct block for my car though and I am rebuilding that one.

[Tom Lange, MGT Repair]

There ar two possibilities for that engine number: XPAG9925 was originally fitted to TC9204, on July 8, 1949. OR, XPAG/TD/LHX9925 was fitted to TD9486, made on Aug. 15, 1951.

Tom Lange
MGT Repair

[Duncan M]

Tom, would not TD9486 have been fitted with an XPAG with casting number 24445? Don says both his XPAG's are casting #24146. I think only some "very early" TD's were fitted with the TC 24146 block, and surely those few would have a 1949 casting date code.