back to front stub axles

[ian theobald]

Hi,Im only new to this site but have owned my TC for just on 2 yrs having previously owned a Riley for 30yrs.
Some Australian members may know of the car,some unique features are that it has a later diff with ends cut off and re welded, Datsun steering box and at some stage had holes in the side of its bonnet for air snorkels.
It is fully registered so is a case of preservation and just slowly fixing up the things that annoy me.
I have replaced alll brake pipes now with new steel bundy tubing but have wrapped wire around to make it look authentic.The old pipes were copper but were badly kinked and messy under neath. The Master cylinder looked ok till I cleaned out with CLR and thought what was shiny and looked like solder was actually daylight through bottom of tin. The wheel cylinders were in better condition and got away with re honing and new boots but must say brakes still only ordinary so next will be checking drum diameter as linnings appear ok.

Now back to the stub axles,While brakes were apart I noticed lots of play in hubs so purchased new wheel bearings .
At some stage some one has assembled incorrectly with dished washer flattened out and nuts loose.
On fitting new bearings into hub noticed worn inside but a lot of play has dissapeared so seems like hubs will be required ,Should I discard old ones in bin as I dont think are of any use as are mostly worn on the outside so would not be able to be machined.
What I have also noticed is that stub axles are back to front !
The beam axle appears correct as cotter pins enter from rear but steering stops are at front of stub axle,Also nut undoes in a clock wise direction on drivers side. This would explain tyre marks under the guard,I thought the lack of bump rubbers was the cause.
It,s funny how once you start a job it always leads to something else.
As I now need to remove will get them crack tested but was hoping to just spray them with dye penetrine to check.
There are many other jobs that will need doing like missing catch straps over rear axle and fitting new sender to tank that has been in it,s box for over 12 mths.
I have fitted flashing blinkers now inside front parkers and to rear of car and a much needed temperture guage but car seems to run at 60 degrees ,even in the warmer months here.
If any one knows some of the cars history would be happy to hear as at some stage has had some restoration done to it and am suprised the lack of rattles in it compared to my Riley.
Like all TC,s it leaks oil especially around back of starter motor so that inner guard has a constant dribble of oil behind it but in 12 mths has used very little to no oil and has covered several thousand miles.
I purchased a trip tray for under the bell housing but as sump is ribbed between it and bell housing oil just follows to the lowest point.
Will keep members updated of progress.
Ian Theobald Nowra NSW Australia

[Steve Simmons]

Hi Ian, are you saying the bearings are loose inside the hub? If so, you can use a bit of green locktite to secure them. If they are very loose however then I would go for new hubs.

Also, the beam axle installs with the writing toward the rear of the car. It goes without saying that it's important to ensure the stub axles and especially the hubs are installed on the correct sides.

Beautiful car, and welcome to the group!

[ian theobald]

Thanks,I tried the green Locktite but must be to much play as can still move wheel but much better than before.
I have not done drivers side yet but outside of hub is a nice tight fit but worn on the inner side so may get away with machining and fitting a sleeve but am yet to get a price or opinion from local machinist.
I purchased the car as advertised for restoration but really was not to bad once a good hard elbow grease onto chrome work and a thorough cleaning.
Underneath the chassis paint was quite good once degreased and with a small orbital sander have sprayed the outer rails with epoxy semi gloss from a pressure pack can,
The doors were very loose ,so much so that side curtains have damaged paint on sides of dash but just redowelling timber in door and repositioning hinges has made a near perfect fit.
Passenger door still awaits same treatment but just doing up hinges made a huge improvement.
Car came with new hood and carpet and at present paint job I am hoping can be touched up until all other faults sorted out as many people comment that it looks like an original

[Steve Simmons]

Just a thought, are you sure the play is in the hub body? With the original type of bearing, there will always be a small amount of play in the bearings themselves. King pins also develop play, and if your spinners have been over-tightened then the wheel itself may be moving on the hub... which is bad. Or could be a combination of any of the above.

[ian theobald]

Hi steve,have everything apart now so will send stub axles away to get magna flux tested which I found out can be done locally at our engine reconditioner so it pays to just ask as could not find any one advertised on a search.
King pin bushes are worn but have one question .
The king pin is a loose fit through beam axle but is firm once cotter pin is in ,MG supplier advised that over size pins are available but not sure if I only really need the bushes as pins seem to be ok with no lips to them and no sign of wear on machined part where cotter pins sits ??
Having some play does not bother me as long as it is safe and not going to contribute to a stub axle failure.
The hubs could actualy move in and out as well as up and down due to incorrect fitting of washer under castle nut.
Odly enough the car seemed to handle ok but main reason was my fear of a broken axle at some stage.
Hopefully hubs will be ok although there is some scoring on them so untill I get them back cannot really proceed in ordering parts till proven ok but will be able to give backing plates a better coat of paint where I missed before.
Thanks Ian

[Max Irvine]

Hi Ian,
The king-pins should be a snug fit in the axle. Another way to improve the fit is to shrink the eyes in the beam axle. A front end specialist should be able to do this for you. It is done be grinding a vertical groove and then welding the groove back up. The hole is then reamed back to standard. The geometry of the front axle should also be checked. Like you said one thing leads to another. Are you a member of your local MG club?

[Rick Waters]

When I bought my TC, it would not go straight down the road, so I had to do a lot of front end work to make the car safe. Because I value my life, I decided to renew just about everything, including the king pin bushes and thrust washers, which had to be custom made; new leaf springs and pins; new stub axles from Tim Patchett, in England; new hubs and bearings; and all new shackle bushes. At the same time, I managed to find new bearings for the cam shaft in the Bishop steering box, and fitted a new pin. I rebuilt the wire wheels, and had them balanced with new Dunlops. And, before I forget, I removed the caster adjustment wedges between the axle beam and the springs

The result was a complete transformation in how the car drives. But more importantly, I feel much safer in the car when I'm on a long trip, or just going around the city.

It's a nice looking car in your photo, and I know everybody does things their own way. I just wanted to let you know how I proceeded.

Good luck with your project.

[ian theobald]

Hi all.Every thing is all together now and nice and tight. The top of beam axle on drivers side ended up with 2 thou clearance after fitting 5 thou oversize pins in but tight in ythe centre and bottom.
I had to polish down one of my old bottom spacers to take up clearance between the beam and stub axle but the result is a tight front end now
the front hubs I was able to have a sleeves inserted .
I have noticed that there is some play on full lock in the steering joints but wonder what effect the spring loaded cups have and have checked for tightness as per hand book.
Lastly on final assembly i notice that full lock cannot be achieved as the new cotter pins have longer heads. Much to my annoyance they were also 8 thou to large and had to get machined down but maybe that is in case owners have worn beam axles?
This will require me to get my minature dremmel out and grind down to size as per originals as I am reluctant to try and knock out now.
Also just as I was getting all exited about driving the car again I also discovered that one of the front brake linings had started to de laminate but have now fitted new linnings as well.
I must mention that I have only just fitted a new master cylinder ,pipes and hoses so maybe the front shoes had got a taste of real braking after such a rebuild.
I never replaced the shoes as they appeared to have lots of material on them.
The car has new springs on the front but have noticed it has wedges in between being a late 49 model so have not decided as to whether to remove or not.Steering is excellent as the car has a Datsun box fitted and is light as a feather.
Road handling feels so good now so was a good result and not to expensive to do Ian Theobald

[Gene Gillam]

Recommend you leave the wedges in - with the Datsun box the steering is almost too light with them removed.

[ian theobald]

Thanks Gene but a little confused. I thought the wedges were to make the steering lighter for parking so would of thought that removing them would make steering heavier.
My car seems to handle ok but has very light steering but have never compared with any others.
Now that the weather is warming up have just been reminded of the dreaded vapour lock after leaving car stopped for 10minutes and battling to get to run again on all 4 cylinders and subsequent over flowing of front carbi while stopped at a busy set of traffic lights.
My car has TD carbis I think but heat shield pattern should be the same.
Does any one know if ones advertised for TD,s are suitable ?
Apart from that car is much more firm in front now especially over bumpy roads which are a plenty over here.
Ian theobald

[Gene Gillam]

Ian,

Oops, I forgot to mention- put them in front to back.

[jamesmdavis]

Gene - Are you saying to reverse the caster wedges so that the thick end of the wedge is to the front?

[Gene Gillam]

Yes, reverse them. It can be done one side at a time without unbolting everything...loosen up the bolts holding everything together on one side, jack up the axle letting the spring sag down, flip the wedge on it's side and pull it out. Reverse it, tighten and move to the other side.

I found that doing this made the car a bit easier to drive while still being easily controllable at slow speeds (parking lot).

[Gene Gillam]

Yes, reverse them. It can be done one side at a time without unbolting everything...loosen up the bolts holding everything together on one side, jack up the axle letting the spring sag down, flip the wedge on it's side and pull it out. Reverse it, tighten and move to the other side.

I found that doing this made the car a bit easier to drive while still being easily controllable at slow speeds (parking lot).

[ian theobald]

What will happen if I just remove and discard ?Will it be like pre 49 models ?.Maybe just leave alone

[Gene Gillam]

Yes, geometry will be like the pre-49's but steering will still be light. Since it's so easy to do try it both ways.